To not let daughter join in

[BeepyBoo]

We have some issues with my DD’s behaviour. She is generally a lovely kid - kind, conscientious, does well at school, etc.
However, I am worried that she is becoming quite entitled and spoilt. We do well enough financially to pay for our kids to do lots of extra-curricular clubs, go on nice trips, buy whatever big toys they ask for at Christmas, within reason, etc (this year she’s getting a drum kit and only a few small presents to go with that as it’s so expensive). As a child, my upbringing was different as We didn’t have much money.
I’m worried that this is all being taken for granted and she does not appreciate the value of things and how lucky she is. She’s become very demanding, and doesn’t seem excited about trips and activities we book. Today, we booked a Tag Active session, as it was raining and we wanted to get out of the house. She loves Tag Active. She woke in a foul mood, ordered us around, tried to get us to change the time of the session, tried to engage in long arguments over small issues like the dress code at the venue, refused to get out of bed, or get dressed, refused to put shoes on or get in the car. This happens a lot. If she is in a bad mood, it’s as if she’s on a mission to ruin the moods of everyone else in the house. She often ruins trips out. She can be very argumentative and sulky.
So, she is now going to Tag Active, but as a spectator to watch her brother do it. I feel there needs to be some consequence for the way she speaks to us. She showed no excitement or gratefulness for the fact that we were treating her today. I am sick of having to go through this with her, and feel that she needs to learn that the way she acts and speaks to others has consequences. I don’t want her to grow up to be a spoilt, entitled, little rich kid. Do you think I’m being too harsh? We have lots of lovely times together, but if things don’t go her way, or she feels annoyed about something, it’s a real challenge dealing with her attitude.

@BeepyBoo

This is exactly how my dd presented. ASD is very different in girls.

My Dd maintained eye contact, was sociable and had lots of friends. She pointed, talked really early, was very touchy feely, and as a baby smiled all the time.

Inability to express emotions is alexythimia and is often found in ASD. Problems with clothes often come from sensory issues.

Trying to impose discipline when a child is in meltdown ( and this is what the tantrums are) make it worse.

l would push for an assessment. She sounds overwhelmed.

OP, have you looked at the criteria for PDA on the autism society website? The tantrums sound very similar to dd's behaviour. She conformed at school, but was appalling at home, and was even admitted to hospital when she was 12 due to pathological levels of anxiety.

And some people are saying it’s my fault and I’m not blaming myself.

Of course I am blaming myself!
That’s why I’m on here questioning myself. Parenting is really difficult, and not all children are the same. I have two children with very different personalities. Some people on here are saying their kids were practically angels and they had no problems - perhaps you have forgotten, perhaps you were lucky you had well-balanced kids…..yes, maybe you were great at parenting, but maybe they also had more placid personalities. I have one child that always does as he’s told. No parent is perfect. You just feel guilty all the time, trying to find the best way, and constantly questioning yourself.

We used to call Dd the Tamanisn Devil.

l had one compliant easy going child and one ball of fury. I blamed myself too. But it wasn’t me. I was doing the best l could in the very difficult situation!

My daughter conforms at school. Clothes issues are - does not like any waistband or seam around her middle, no collars around her neck, sleeves never the right length, legs never the right length, tops too small or too big, trousers have to hang loose and not cling, the line on the socks digging in (have to buy bamboo socks, which are really expensive and quickly get holes in them), shoes too loose or too tight. She cries over all of this, and attempts to argue with us about it.

She will wear the same outfit five days in a row (would just wear it permanently), even if it’s visibly dirty. Openly criticises any clothes I buy, or others buy her, rudely in front of them. Rejects 80% of her wardrobe, even stuff she chose and tried on in the shops.

She has to have her hair done, in the same style, by me (nobody else) in the morning before she will go downstairs. If not this causes tantruming. Thank God we don’t need to use slides anymore because her fringe is longer. She would need her slides putting in over and over again, by me, and would not learn to do it herself. She doesn’t really want to learn to do things herself in general.

Conforming at school and melting down at home are classic ASd.

She masks it all day, and has to take it off at home.

Honestly I could have almost written this word for word about my DD11 who was dx with ASD earlier this year- her issues with clothing sound identical!

Also masks at school, very academic and has always had friends.

Don't want to make an armchair diagnosis but from all you've posted, I wouldn't rule it out.

And just like mine.

Thank you.

She doesn’t meet most of the criteria on the ASD list, but it has crossed my mind.

What do I do to get her assessed please?
I don’t like our current doctors. Is this something we can get done privately? Or is it best to go through the doctor’s surgery?

You can get seamless socks on Amazon.

Dies she meet the criteria on the girls symptoms? They are mostly written for boys. You need a female specific one. It is a spectrum, so she won’t present all the symptoms.

Go through GP. Or you can pay. She sounds identical to my dd.

This. My 10 yo DD is becoming a little hermit-loves reading and says she 'hates going out in public'. Not so much tantrumming but we've not had a situation like this which might have provoked a similar desperate response from DD.
Hormones? Bit of social anxiety after a week at home? All of a sudden clothes hair shoes matter to her when they never have before.
Agree with PPs try and suss out if she's tired hungry etc.
I also need to firmly (!) remind them how lucky they are periodically when they start getting rude and entitled. We create these little monsters by giving them so much so I suppose we need to watch out for these signs we need to rein it in!! X

Girls are much more socialised than boys. They present very differently. My dd never lined things up or obsessed with patterns.

She just had meltdowns
Fussy about textures and clothes
some anxiety
needed lots of time alobe
hated transition.

That was it. Also terrified of breaking school rules.

www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/what-is-autism/autistic-women-and-girls

OP, your latter posts indicate that you are dealing with a lot more than just normal parenting.

It reads to me that she has a lot going on and you have been really doing your best.

I think looking to get her privately assessed would be very helpful to you all.

Knowledge is power.

Wishing you both the best.

Oh I'll think you find she does. I finally received my autism assessment report today and she's ticked most of the same boxes as me already!

Bingo! I was waiting for this OP.

My son is autistic and behaves exactly the same as your daughter. If he doesn't want to do something he will not do it and pull this kind of behaviour to get out of it.

He also hates leaving the house.

I’m glad you are getting your DD assessed for ASD as like others I think she ticks a lot of the boxes. So much you have related reminds me of my younger DD who has ASD and finds going out to be very difficult.

I have an older DD also with ASD but it presents entirely differently from her younger sister as she is adventurous to the point of being oblivious to danger.

I will say that if your DD does have ASD you will need to change your parenting. The blunt responses are not rudeness, but autistic statements of literal truth. And they often genuinely cannot understand what is wrong with what they said. The bad mood and not wanting to go out, is autistic levels of being able to cope with being out being low that day- so not being ungrateful or spoilt. Just not a day where they have the energy to mask. You will have to adjust your entire paradigm.

Yep, exactly the same here!

OP, take a look at Flying Under the Radar and see if it resonates. nasen.org.uk/resources/girls-and-autism-flying-under-radar

I’ve posted one below, but there seems to be lots of list online that are all very different.
By the way, I spoke to her about this morning when we arrived home, using some of the approaches mentioned here. She smirked at me throughout the whole conversation. She knows she’s causing a stir. Unfortunately, she does remind me a bit of my mother, who uses her intelligence in a negative way, to push buttons.

Signs and symptoms of autism in females, particularly those on the high-functioning end of the spectrum, include:

Relying on other people to guide or speak for them - NOT TO SPEAK, BUT NEEDS TO BE SHOWN HOW TO DO NEW THINGS, WON’T TRY FOR HERSELF OR WORK THINGS OUT. CAN ONLY COPY AND GETS VERY FRUSTRATED WHEN SHE CAN’T DO IT STRAIGHT AWAY.
Having unusual sensitivity to sensory challenges - YES
Having passionate but limited interests -NOT LIMITED BUT VERY SPORTY
Difficulty making and keeping friends -NO
Having conversations that are restricted to limited topics of interest-No
Difficulty with social communication (which increases with age)-Not noticed
Appearing to be shy, quiet, or unusually passive - NOT SHY OR QUIET, BUT DOES NOT SEEM AFFECTED BY EMOTIONAL THINGS. SEEMS EMOTIONLESS TO THINGS I WOULD PRESUME ARE UPSETTING SOMETIMES.
Having depression, anxiety, or other mental health symptoms - OCD TENDENCIES
Difficulty controlling emotion - YES. CAN’T CALM HERSELF DOWN EASILY OR STOP TANTRUMING, EVEN WHEN SHE SAYS SHE WANTS TO.
Having epileptic seizures -NO.

Thank you, and for everyone’s help here x

You can go through the GP or school SENDCO. In some areas it's then via CAMHS in others not, all oversubscribed and sometimes without the resources or knowledge to support those that are "functioning". (I won't hijack your thread with rants about that here!)

If you can afford to go private it's worth looking into. The Lorna Wing Centre is the gold standard for autism in women and girls - might be worth a look (of course there are other private options too)

But they change as the get older! I used to swear my dd was being defiant. But she wasn’t, she was very very frustrated. And wouldn’t talk about anything.

Shes nearly 17 now and is very different. She can articulate and talk and explain things. She’s much easier, but likes to hide away a lot. I didn’t think she had any communication problems at 9.

At 17 she won’t talk to certain teachers, doctors or dentists. Selective mutism. But very friendly and chatty when she feels safe.

I think you’re missing some things OP

Relying on other people to guide or speak for them - Yes, needs people to guide her- NEEDS TO BE SHOWN HOW TO DO NEW THINGS, WON’T TRY FOR HERSELF OR WORK THINGS OUT. CAN ONLY COPY AND GETS VERY FRUSTRATED WHEN SHE CAN’T DO IT STRAIGHT AWAY.

Having unusual sensitivity to sensory challenges - YES

Having passionate but limited interests -Yes- VERY SPORTY

Difficulty making and keeping friends - possibly? you say she is popular with lots of friends, but are they really friends or just superficial class mates type friends? Does she have a best friend? Anyone is is genuinely close to?

Having conversations that are restricted to limited topics of interest-No

Difficulty with social communication (which increases with age)-Yes “She showed no excitement or gratefulness for the fact that we were treating her today. I am sick of having to go through this with her, and feel that she needs to learn that the way she acts and speaks to others has consequences.” “she is rude, demanding and tries to control situations.” (autistics are terrified if a situation is unusual)

Appearing to be shy, quiet, or unusually passive - yes unusually passive, emotionless.

Having depression, anxiety, or other mental health symptoms - yes
OCD TENDENCIES

Difficulty controlling emotion - YES. CAN’T CALM HERSELF DOWN EASILY OR STOP TANTRUMING, EVEN WHEN SHE SAYS SHE WANTS TO. These are likely meltdowns not tantrums. also “spoke to her about this morning when we arrived home, using some of the approaches mentioned here. She smirked at me throughout the whole conversation”- part of autism includes inappropriate responses to situations, smirking/laughing when things are not funny is common. It just shows how ASD truly means the brain is wired very differently. The smiling/laughing actually shows distress/hurt feelings for many with ASD.

Having epileptic seizures -NO.

My personal experience of this type of behaviour is neurodiversity. I have three ND children and then had my last one who seems to be NT. Imagine if they were all like that- so much easier! Ha ha! Obviously I love them as they are and admire them for who they are. Also, if there is ND, this time of year can be extra challenging. It's worth considering before punishing. My children are happier with simpler treats, simpler days out and far simpler activities. It took me a long time to learn this. And also no surprises! I would plan things as a surprise that I'd think they'd like, but no, there would be upset. I look back at some truly awful trips out and behaviour, but I just didn't know why they were 'misbehaving'. My expectations for them were totally unrealistic and seen from my point of view, not theirs.

The demand avoidance is the instantly most noticeable thing in your OP

I believe what links ASD is the lack of flexibility of the mind. So for example being able to think of solutions for unusual situations. How this manifests itself will differ from one person to another.

If you have the money, going private will give you a far faster result. It won't provide an official diagnosis though if you want help from for example the council. But if you do get a diagnosis, as pp has said, parenting technique may have to change.

I had to go on a parenting course after my son's diagnosis and it was super informative, especially on ways to deal with behaviour. Google 5-step process which can help look out for signs of meltdown and stop them before it goes too far.. Also one with the acronym STAR (I think) which is about walking the child through actions and consequences.