To not let daughter join in

[BeepyBoo]

We have some issues with my DD’s behaviour. She is generally a lovely kid - kind, conscientious, does well at school, etc.
However, I am worried that she is becoming quite entitled and spoilt. We do well enough financially to pay for our kids to do lots of extra-curricular clubs, go on nice trips, buy whatever big toys they ask for at Christmas, within reason, etc (this year she’s getting a drum kit and only a few small presents to go with that as it’s so expensive). As a child, my upbringing was different as We didn’t have much money.
I’m worried that this is all being taken for granted and she does not appreciate the value of things and how lucky she is. She’s become very demanding, and doesn’t seem excited about trips and activities we book. Today, we booked a Tag Active session, as it was raining and we wanted to get out of the house. She loves Tag Active. She woke in a foul mood, ordered us around, tried to get us to change the time of the session, tried to engage in long arguments over small issues like the dress code at the venue, refused to get out of bed, or get dressed, refused to put shoes on or get in the car. This happens a lot. If she is in a bad mood, it’s as if she’s on a mission to ruin the moods of everyone else in the house. She often ruins trips out. She can be very argumentative and sulky.
So, she is now going to Tag Active, but as a spectator to watch her brother do it. I feel there needs to be some consequence for the way she speaks to us. She showed no excitement or gratefulness for the fact that we were treating her today. I am sick of having to go through this with her, and feel that she needs to learn that the way she acts and speaks to others has consequences. I don’t want her to grow up to be a spoilt, entitled, little rich kid. Do you think I’m being too harsh? We have lots of lovely times together, but if things don’t go her way, or she feels annoyed about something, it’s a real challenge dealing with her attitude.

I used to do this. 🤷‍♀️.

for me it was self sabotage. I was insecure and lacked self confidence, was an introvert etc.

I’d get left at home and it would “prove” to me that it didn’t matter if I wasn’t part of the family, they wouldn’t miss me or have less fun if I wasn’t there. Fuelling my “nobody cares about me” thought processes.

it’s very hard to deal with. I agree that you need to find a way to break the self loathing cycle. Tough though.

OP. Could this be puberty? A friend of mine's ten year old girl became like this overnight, and my friend was so upset. It doesn't necessarily make any difference in relation to managing the actual behaviour, where I'm sure you are doing all the right things ... But perhaps it just provides more context?

I wouldn't stop her from joining in today. It's almost Christmas and she doesn't know she's behaving so negatively, it's still a positive memory for her.
But I would sit her down with both of you and have a very firm talk afterwards about behaviour and consequences and THEN take things away if she doesn't go along with it.

Could be hormones starting to kick in before puberty.

Well done for giving consequences.

My SDCs are in an affluent area and the entitled and spoilt behaviour from some of their friends over the years has been properly cringey. With so often no apparent consequences through either gentle parenting or just no parenting.

The SDCs have grown up with pretty much no financial barriers on their DM’s side and their attitude to possessions and experiences really surprises me sometimes. It’s something I don’t recognise at all from my own life. It’s very different to what I know but that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong. If they grow up in different circumstances to what you did, it is inevitable that they will have different attitudes and values.

'Sometimes if I am honest though I find MN a bit uncomfortably close to getting ‘revenge’ on a misbehaving child than actually helping shape and form their will and spirit.'

This PP has it spot on.

OP, this is going to sound harsh, possibly: I think you're projecting your consciousness of your relative wealth onto your daughter, putting a huge and tbh very transactional emphasis on 'gratitude', and not cutting her the slack we all need sometimes, however old we are. The message you are giving her is 'look how well I am doing, giving you what I didn't have - reward me with the kind of behaviour I want to see'. Her acting out against that is entirely natural. And there is something quite vindictive about making her sit out and watch her brother do an activity which, frankly, will probably improve rather than impact her behaviour if you let her engage in it - physical activity, distraction from the hype of Christmas, letting off steam and all that.

You’ve done the right thing op! She was rude and tried to ruin today.
she has missed the activity, so consequences of her own actions!

I think you need to nip it in the bud with some firm boundaries and consequences.

Speak calmly and firmly

O it seems you have woken up with a bad attitude today, acting and speaking rudely and it is spoiling the day for everyone. You have 5 minutes to improve your behaviour or you won't be coming with us today.

Then follow through with the consequence.

I would then follow up later with a conversation. She needs to learn that it's okay to be in a mood or feel down, we all have those kind of days but it's not okay to take it out on everyone else by being rude and unkind.
Try and also see if anything else is going on in her life that may be making the behaviour worse. Is she being bullied at school, is she worried about not seeing school friends over the break. Does she feel your attention is always on the other siblings etc

You’re not wrong. There’s a hand-wringing thread going on right now because a child has been shouted at 🙄

Yes. You say she tries to control situations. That's a classically anxious behaviour. All behaviour is communication.

Did she really want o do it or only because her brother was?

I know it's an activity but it's still indoors.

I work full time and the reason my 10 year old is sometimes challenging is totally because of that and nothing to do with being tired at the end of a long school term and the hormones cursing through her body.

10 is a tough age.

I’m not sure the two are as related as you think they are.

She’s rude, stroppy, manipulative - and is hopefully realising today the consequence of that. No NT 10 yr old should be tantrumming, for any reason.

Your lifestyle is a separate thing. Being able to do extra curricular stuff/have holidays etc is great, and it’s what you are working to give her and your son. It’s unreasonable to expect children to be grateful for that, though, when they have only known that, and their friends prob all do the same.

To answer your question, you’re right not to let her join in. No one gets to behave like that and still do the nice thing, regardless of how much money they do or don’t have (I know it’s hard when things have been booked and paid for).

So she’s supposed to act like everything is special even though it’s a normal day for her to get everything she wants? That would require some actual acting!

Theres a reason why rich and famous people who can get anything they want turn to drugs.

Just like Christmas would lose its charm if we did it too often.

I am worried the kids have no awareness of the monetary value of anything. I was definitely aware when we were young.

I had zero awareness when I was ten and I’m pretty sad that my son did. The way to teach it is to make her choose between two things she wants and not give her both. Expecting gratitude from a ten year old for things that are part of her normality is a fruitless exercise.

Well done you! Stamp out bratty behaviour like a fag butt!!!

Good old-fashioned parenting absolutely doesn't include hitting! It just means teaching the word No from as soon as language emerges. So you've missed the boat a bit, but it can be saved. If she misbehaves, you give a warning and inform her of the consequence, and if the behaviour continues she gets the consequence. Any tantrumming afterwards is met with a 'you were told this would happen and you didn't listen' and repeat. Calmly.

The thing is, the activity probably isn’t very exciting for her. It is all relative. You have created a situation and now you are punishing her for not reacting with gratitude. You sound guilty about your privileged life. Dial down the treat activities and go for a walk if you feel need to get out.

Sometimes it can be as simple as going back to basics, it might be hard, but just spending proper time together without spending any money and truly appreciating the simple things is the way to go. So a walk in the park, whatever the weather, laugh if you all get completely soaked, bake simple biscuits, homemade pizzas. Forget about the niceness that money brings.

You can't 'make' someone appreciate something, especially things they have always had, had for a long time or haven't had to work for. She doesn't currently feel lucky because she's never known anything different.

You know someone can only argue if the other person argues back. Just don't get into it with her. Tell her it's the dress code and she is free to disagree with it but if she doesn't follow it then she won't be able to participate - her choice and you won't be discussing it further. If she tries to argue just walk away. Insist that if she wants something then she asks nicely (I mean she should have been learning that since she was three). Don't allow her to order you around - 'I think you're old enough to do that yourself'. If she's rude 'please don't talk to me like that' and walk away.

Maybe she's starting to need more independence. Choosing her own clothes, making her own breakfast, making her own lunch, making dinner for everyone, hoovering her bedroom, taking more responsibility for things, feeding/walking any pets, that sort of thing. That's what I did when ds starting being a bit like this, gave him more and more responsibility for things and I think it really helped him to grow up a bit and appreciate more what others did for him. Perhaps even give her a budget for activities and she has to decide how to spend it.

You have bought her a drum set ? 😱

YANBU

She’s ten. She’s old enough to reconsider her behaviour at any point in the morning. She didn’t. She continuously attempted to ruin it for her brother.

She now misses out on the fun that she tried to ruin.

Good for you, mum.

Slapping a child is absolutely not necessary to instil manners and good behaviour.

I found saying "your behaviour is unacceptable, you must be very tired, we will take a complete break from all technology/TV for a couple of days" worked a treat.

After doing it a couple of times I only had to start the sentence and it had the desired effect.

Children change their behaviour out of self interest IMO.

So making it in THEIR interest to behave well worked in my house.

Remaining absolutely calm and in control of yourself is far more lethal in parenting terms.

I very rarely had to punished my children because I ALWAYS followed through with a threat.

So they knew if I warned of a consequence it WOULD happen and that was usually enough.

I removed the PS4 for a weekend because my boys were getting into a habit of roaring at each as to who was going to go on with their friends.

They were bereft!...........but they never roared at each other like that again.

One of my children used to drive me mad in the morning by keeping me waiting in the car so I told them I would start driving off without them and they could bus.......and I did.

They couldn't believe it, but they were in the car the following morning.
It worked for a while and things started to slide and I didn't give a warning, I just drove off without them.

Again it worked.

Once children know you mean what you say life is much calmer for everyone!😁

"You choose that behaviour, you accept the consequences" is a great saying.

I think you have done exactly the right thing OP.

You have noticed a pattern of entitled behaviour and are now addressing it. And a consequence of missing the activity after the morning shenanigans from her is a perfect way of letting her know she cannot do/say whatever she wants and still gets to join in with treats.

So I think you are handling it well. She may well tantrum as shes used to getting whatever she wants, but it won't take long for her to realise you mean business now and actions have consequences. If shes behaving entitled at 10, imagine if you don't address it what she would be like at 13!

I know of a couple of young teens (friends of dds) who seem to have never heard the word no, and they are absolutely awful to be around. In my opinion their parents have actually done them a huge disservice by giving them whatever they want, when they want and zero consequences for bratty behaviour, as they come across as not very nice dc much of the time. I have heard them talk to their parents like absolute shit, its quite shocking.

So stick in there. Giving consequences is what a loving parent does, because you want your dc to grow up with values and not be one one of those spoilt kids noone likes.

Its termed 'spoiling' your child for a reason. As thats exactly what it does.

Also never heard of tag active before, but it sounds fun!

Is she NT? Just because she sounds very like my autistic 9-year-old who - actually - just sometimes really has difficulty with anxiety and transitions, even doing things she really really wants to do. And then the difficulty in communication kicks in and it comes off as bratty-ness...

(The description in your first post - kind, conscientious, does well at school - applies to my DD too!)