To not let daughter join in

[BeepyBoo]

We have some issues with my DD’s behaviour. She is generally a lovely kid - kind, conscientious, does well at school, etc.
However, I am worried that she is becoming quite entitled and spoilt. We do well enough financially to pay for our kids to do lots of extra-curricular clubs, go on nice trips, buy whatever big toys they ask for at Christmas, within reason, etc (this year she’s getting a drum kit and only a few small presents to go with that as it’s so expensive). As a child, my upbringing was different as We didn’t have much money.
I’m worried that this is all being taken for granted and she does not appreciate the value of things and how lucky she is. She’s become very demanding, and doesn’t seem excited about trips and activities we book. Today, we booked a Tag Active session, as it was raining and we wanted to get out of the house. She loves Tag Active. She woke in a foul mood, ordered us around, tried to get us to change the time of the session, tried to engage in long arguments over small issues like the dress code at the venue, refused to get out of bed, or get dressed, refused to put shoes on or get in the car. This happens a lot. If she is in a bad mood, it’s as if she’s on a mission to ruin the moods of everyone else in the house. She often ruins trips out. She can be very argumentative and sulky.
So, she is now going to Tag Active, but as a spectator to watch her brother do it. I feel there needs to be some consequence for the way she speaks to us. She showed no excitement or gratefulness for the fact that we were treating her today. I am sick of having to go through this with her, and feel that she needs to learn that the way she acts and speaks to others has consequences. I don’t want her to grow up to be a spoilt, entitled, little rich kid. Do you think I’m being too harsh? We have lots of lovely times together, but if things don’t go her way, or she feels annoyed about something, it’s a real challenge dealing with her attitude.

I'd say puberty is on its way. It sucks a lot.

You're doing the right thing with consequences and I agree with a PP that praise the good stuff and install natural consequences for the negative will probably go a long way in navigating it.

I'd also start the chores thing also if she doesn't already.

I agree with others on here that when you don't have money as a child you are very aware of it. Trying to teach the opposite to a child is much more difficult. Their age means they take things as a given / it's how things have always been and it would be unreasonable for them, at 10, to go around practicing self awareness about the haves and have nots.
That said, you can expect politeness and reasonable behaviour (not necessarily gratitude), and are right to punish bad behaviour.

On a more overall thought, I don’t think it’s problematic that children take their normal for granted - it’s part of creating a sense of security - and that sense of security is a huge part of why people strive to be financially comfortable.

In terms of teaching them the value of money I wonder whether you have ever really talked about your childhood with them. 10 seems a good age to start having more nuanced conversation about things like that.

Id also suggest that Christmas is a really good time to start talking and learning about charity. Do you do anything like food bank donations? Do you make charity donations? Do you volunteer ? Now might be a good time to start sharing with the kids what you do and why, and maybe get the kids involved in something new.

My 9.5yo doesn't want for much, loads of activities etc- so possibly a bit spolit in terms of what she has. However, she is polite and grateful. I think you need to get a lot tougher.

In your OP you said you do lots of extra-curricular activities. But in this post you said you don’t do loads!!?

it sounds very much like you’ve got a spoilt daughter alongside a very tired and probably hormonal one

i take it she doesn’t have SEN at all?

Things to do that don’t cost too much money and do involve spending time together and have encouraged my child and I to chat:
Going for a walk in the country side - there are books and websites with circular walks
Swimming
Playing board games.

Mine from a young age have looked after small pets when the owners are on holiday. Rabbits, fish, Guinea pigs. Earnt a little money and some responsibility

Does she have chores? eg bring the washing to the washing machine, sorting the recycling, emptying the dishwasher etc. No reward for these or her allowance is dependent on these being completed. These activities are part of participating in family life.

I have a colleague who is sometimes a bit like this - moody, wants to change agreed things at the last minute, trying to make everything run to her timetable or with a finishing touch by her. It probably does stem from anxiety but it is exhausting and I am going to look for another job.

I think this sounds like good parenting, natural consequences. Of course she wont like it and has tantrumed and so you're now questioning yourself.

I really want to go to Tag active after reading the OP. Sounds great.

Yanbu.

Yep, as soon as you said she is 10, I thought hormones! She sounds tired and moody. Not excusing the behaviour but actually maybe consider if she does too many actives. Sometimes less is more. They need plenty of downtime at this age.

Did you warn her she'd miss out of her attitude continued?

How do you respond when she's bossing you around?

Making her sit out and watch without warning is nasty.

@BeepyBoo - she needs to understand cause and effect/consequences - she behaved in an unacceptable manner - the effect was she missed out on an activity. This is a crucial lesson in my eyes for children and adults. They need to know they won’t continuously get their way and that their are consequences to their actions.

have you a family manifesto. My and my sons agreed family rules and how we treat each other. Our duties around the home - my boys have grown up with things they are responsible so that upon leaving home they weren’t shell shocked at having to adult!

we discussed suitable punishments for not meeting the family rules of conduct and behaviour. This was agreed with the kids so they couldnt argue it was a punishment out of nowhere.

this light help your husband navigate the divide between yours and his experiences as well.

We also included how we’d behave to others, being grateful and I volunteered with mine so they. Mutual respect and all that.

we had family meetings regularly to speak about how we were doing and feeling about things and plan ‘big’ days out.

We discussed the budget for trips (I’m not wealthy so wanted them to understand the value of the money and how much it cost to run our home/lifestyle etc) and how we could earn more or cut back/save.

I think it would help and lots of ideas on the internet on such things.

so she can be a grumpy rude mare - but she has to learn that things will happen if that’s her chosen mood. She also needs to learn to communicate better - to be able ti understand herself and why she sometimes wants to react in a certain why. I’m sure there are many books for her age on such things. She needs to explore her emotional intelligence for better coping mechanisms.

squishes and good luck.

"So, she is now going to Tag Active, but as a spectator to watch her brother do it. I feel there needs to be some consequence for the way she speaks to us."
Excellent. The consequences of her bad behaviour are applied immediately and are relevant to the behaviour (she was making it difficult for everyone to get out to go to the activity, so she doesn't get to do the activity).

You say she's ten. These days, puberty is kicking in earlier and earlier - so I'd just be keeping an eye on her for other signs.

But whether that's a factor today or not, I think you're right to set fair boundaries for acceptable behaviour, and to consider the wider picture of entitlement.

She sounds overwhelmed to me.

l had a daughter like this when she was little. Awkward, demanding, controlling.

Also, that she is rude, demanding and tries to control situations

Turns out she was on the spectrum. She wasn’t misbehaving, she was overwhelmed and over stimulated and couldn’t cope with transitions.

You use the word control. Isn’t this driven by anxiety? Again an ASD thing.

I’ve noticed with some of my friends this need to do paid for activities and then wondering why they aren’t grateful. Getting out of the house doesn’t have to be something expensive. We do a mix of going for a walk, the park, visiting a relative, have a friend around or get a drink at a cafe (compared to doing a fancy activity and getting a drink/snack).
Friends with money almost throw up their hands as if to say ‘well they’re ungrateful but what else are we supposed to do?!’ They’ve become less imaginative because they have money and don’t need to think a bit more about what they’re doing. One friend will say ‘well we’ve not been to the cafe so we’re definitely going to the gift shop’ it’s like they have to spend money!

I could take my children to the cafe/for an ice cream/out for a treat a lot more than I do because I’m aware that they’ll become too used to it and take it for granted.

I also hate seeing children on social media posing for a photo of donating an item to the food bank or similar. If you’re going to do it, do it without the ‘look at me’ posts! It’s worrying we’re raising a generation of children who are only going to be interested in doing things for others if they tell everyone else about it.

I have not RTFT . You say she was excited to go to the activity? Her behaviour communicates the opposite, not wanting to get out of bed etc. it’s a busy time of year for kids. They can get worn out and will agree to do activities just because they know they like them even if they don’t have the energy.

Haven’t we all made plans and then woke up on the day and felt like we don’t want to do them?

we expect kids to be grateful for everything they are given and comply with everything we say and do… pretty harsh when you think about it. They are entitled to be have all emotions. I have a child that often refuses to get dressed etc. when I have a conversation with her rather than telling her she has to comply I often find it’s because she’s upset or worried about something or just burnt out, tired, wants a day at home. Punishing a child for feeling that way is very harsh IMO and can cause many more behavioural issues.

@BeepyBoo

try turning it around. So today you’ve taken an activity off her for her bad behaviour but go the other way

do you want to do tag active darling? Right so to do that I need you to do so and so. I need you to do 4 chores etc and when those are done plus with GOOD behaviour for a week I will take you on Saturday.

another thing is I don’t give time outs in my daughters room. Purely because I feel your room should be a good nice space and being sent there and forced to stay in it doesn’t promote safeness.

I see you’ve blamed everyone but yourself for the behaviour. Unless there is some reason for the tantrumming and bad behaviour like SEN which can be when they just can’t regulate. Then nearly all children can go through life unless very young like 5 and under without many arguments or a foul mouth. She’s learnt that from somewhere. I noticed you said once a play date got stopped and now this so from your own mouth it seems she’s only lost those two things? You also said your husband is a bit soft. She’s got BOTH of you parenting her and it seems she spends more time with you so I mean this as gentle as possible. But try looking inwards a little.

so now I I’d get the behaviour better BEFORE the play date or activity. Yes you all needed to go out today but you could have done things that didn’t cost too much. Like walls or parks? Burn off the energy outside. But from this point forward the activity is a REWARD. Not the other way round where as you have the exciting good thing but you have to not do anything to get it

Growing up I always had to display good things before getting to do stuff. It’s all changed now that we throw so much stuff at pike kids. Ballet horse riding. Tag. Bowling and so it becomes the norm.

also. Talk to her and often. Talk to her daily about her behaviour and I don’t mean have a go at her. I mean gently say to her I’m finding your behaviour is getting really overwhelming and I’m struggling. Can I help you in anyway. Is there anything you’re worried about? Even if she says no you’ll generally find out over the next few days with the way she plays if she’s got any worries. Children that age work wonders in play therapy!

My DC had a really privileged childhood , literally ever Club they wanted to go and within reason any toy/game console any DC could ever wish for and they didn’t behave like this. I didn’t expect gratitude and appreciation back but they did always say thank you for a nice day out unprompted. I wanted them to have a childhood where money wasn't a concern of theirs.
They are now grown up, extremely good with money and extremely appreciative of things they have and holidays etc they have experience with us in the past even though it was just normal to them growing up.
OP when I read your post the things I thought of were the start of puberty, have her periods started yet and also was the day out age appropriate and did she ever actually want to go?

It looks like parents try to overcompensate things they didn't have as kids, and expect their kids to be happy and grateful. It doesn't work this way. Plus its obviously too much to do extracurriculars every day plus outings every weekend.

Oh yes. I’ve volunteered with the homeless now for 25 years and I see that so often. I see people donating to us and I think wow! And then I see them whip out a phone. Or I see the kids who have worked tirelessly to make money and the parents whip out the phone to immediately upload it to social media. Honestly we had the little boy. He came and donated some sleeping bags and he was so proud, he’d done it through the school (I know this as the school phoned and asked if he and his parent could come by, the whole school participated but he’d got to do it because of all the effort or something) His mum got out her phone to do the photo and he was excitedly chatting away to her and trying to get her Attention for something and she just kept shushing him because she was ‘uploading everything to Facebook insta and Snapchat’ and then made him redo it so she could take a video for TikTok. He just got more and more sadder. It took her a good 45 mins to upload it all because something wouldn’t work or something.

It leaves a bad taste in my mouth too.

I have wondered about autism and discussed it with my husband. I feel she has some autistic traits, although mild. She struggles a bit with OCD - things having to be perfect. It comes and goes. Over Lockdown, it got quite bad. I would have to do her shoes over and over again, and they were never right. She found faults in everything she wore and would get really worked up about it. Waking up, getting dressed and going out is always an issue….which could be transitions. She struggles to attempt new tasks that require any kind of problem solving element. If she’s not shown how to do something, it’s as if she can’t just ‘have a go’ and work it out (my husband is like that though). She’s popular at school, has lots of friends and does not do any of the behavioural things that autistic children tend to do….avoiding eye contact or any inappropriate behaviour due to misreading a situation. However, she never expresses her own emotions and seems to have no words for them. She’s very academically able though and top of her class.

I can find her quite challenging. She knows how to push buttons. Lots of people here have mentioned saying “no” and sticking to it, and making sure there are consequences. I do that all the time. I’m quite a stickler for rules, boundaries and sticking to them. I try to ignore her attempts to argue and draw me into stressful conversations. It makes no difference! It might work to calm it at the time (although she’ll be screaming in her room), but it does not stop her having another attempt, again and again.

she might be starting puberty as I noticed she is starting to develop a bit and I bought her some starter-bras.

Sounds a lot like my daughter, who is autistic. They aren't tantrums, they are meltdowns, and there is usually some kind of sensory element to it, or some unmet need, often hunger

I think it depends what is at the root of her behaviour. If she's really miserable or is struggling with tension in the home, PMT or being out of routine, punishing will only make her worse. Only you can parent sensitively and know. There are certainly circumstances over which it would be reasonable to withdraw her from the activity. Just remember how very hard it can be to be a kid.

Since they finished school on Friday last week, we’ve been at home everyday, doing things like making paper chains to hang up, arts and crafts, etc. We go for walks. It’s not because she’s doing too much. This is the first day we’ve been out somewhere all week.

She does a fair few after school activities -gym, drums, swimming, football. She wants to do more! I’ve had to say no to dance, as it’s too much. She does nothing on a Tuesday, Friday or Sunday.
when I say we do trips, it’s not every weekend. I’m probably just comparing it to my childhood, because they would have been big things that we looked forward to for ages back then.