Worried Dh is too aggressive around Dd

[Justwantsomepeaceforchristmas]

and that it’s making her more aggressive

This morning as an example..Dd, 4 was downstairs whilst Dh was making her breakfast, all was happy & fine.
Dd is very strong willed and doesn’t listen to No at the moment. She started to say she wanted to wash up and got her step, Dh was saying no and that the water was too hot etc. The next thing I hear is Dd crying and saying that he hurt her and Dh telling her not to be silly. He said he’d picked her up off the step and moved her as the water was hot, but I can imagine he must’ve yanked her off judging by the said way she was crying?
Next, she’s getting dressed and he says she needs fresh knickers, she did as she’d got the same ones she wore yesterday out of the laundry basket, she started arguing that she didn’t. He went up to her wardrobe to get new knickers, the next thing I hear is Dh shouting at her to *Get out right now and her screaming and crying, apparently she’d tried to slam her wardrobe door on her hand as he was getting the knickers out.
Dh adores her, but can be quite aggressive in his mannerisms when angry, he’ll stomp around etc, the other week she came to me and said that daddy had slammed the door so that she was on the landing with no light on. She’d been trying to push the door open when he was on the toilet.
Admittedly, Dd is *V difficult at the moment, she just seems so angry all
the time and can be very hard work, it is hard to stay patient with her, but i’m so worried his way of being is making her worse or causing it

I think there's nothing wrong with how your husband behaved; your daughter needs to learn clear boundaries.

Because children grow up and change?

And the way you dealt with a toddler is probably not the way you need to deal with a 4 year old. And that won't be the way you need to deal with an 8 year old. You need to constantly evolve your parenting to match your child.

Go and look at the teenagers board. Full of posts from parents who had wonderfully behaved model children until about age 14. (And it turns out just saying "no" doesn't work too well with many 14 year olds either).

The sink incident was maybe a bit OTT, but the wardrobe thing, and being left standing on the landing in the dark... They both seem like the natural consequences of bad/rude behaviour.
Also, none of these 3 incidents you've witnessed yourself. They are the temper-fueled words of a pissed off 4yo.

He sounds awful OP. He sounds like my dad; I have awful memories of him; we had a terrible relationship as I grew up.
If I could have changed things, I would have wished that my dad was calmer, more patient, less aggressive, less shouty, less scary.

@Blocked Tbh, when younger she never really did much that warranted her being disciplined, she was an easygoing child full
of fun. We didn’t really encounter the terrible twos at all. Just before 4, she became stronger and since school has become angrier, very strong in her approach and hitting out etc. I’ve tried everything since then, time out, taking things away, I admit I’ve lost my patience lots of times too and shouted. I’ve tried positive reinforcement, showering her with extra love, ignoring (or trying to ignore the bad behaviour) I’m always firm and always feel like I’m repeating myself. She’s never allowed to get away with anything, I admit I don’t sweat the small stuff and get at her for every little thing as I feel Dh often does. I include her in decision making where possible, allow her to help me when she wants to and so on.
Shes just become so freaking strong recently, it’s very hard.

Op, you sound a bit wet. You need to parent your child as the situations you have described need handling. I also have a very strong willed child and it is draining. However, you need to try and nip it in the bud. If you don’t trust your dh, then you shouldn’t be leaving her alone with him. You can’t leave him to it and then moan about it. It does sound like she’s a brat (no judgement, I have one of my own) but you need to deal with it. Your wishy washy sing song attitude is the reason shes out of control atm.

I'd suggest role playing scenarios with your husband.

So what would you do in a situation where she is about to do something dangerous (such as the putting her hand in hot water)?
Maybe you first say "no" (that's what both you and DH would do, based on this thread). What do you do if she continues to ignore you? If you keep saying "no" (that seems to be your method,) then she's probably done the dangerous thing and got hurt. If you yank her off the step (which you think was DH's method), then that's potentially too aggressive but at least she's not hurt. Not sure either of these methods are really great tbh.

So how do you deal with this? I mean you need to work it out between yourselves but one suggestion would be to remove the child from the situation in a non-aggressive way. The trouble is simply lifting the child out of the way even in a "as gentle as you can" manner might distress/surprise her and make her upset anyway. So then you need to sit her down and say that you're sorry you hurt/surprised her but hot water in the sink is very dangerous and she is not to go near it under any circumstances. You might also pre-emptively move her step to somewhere that's not right next to the kitchen sink. Then if you see her getting you can take it off her before she gets near a dangerous point.

@User135792468 What do you do to deal with your brat?

@sheepdogdelight That’s what I would have done and did afterwards..told her why Dh did that and that he had told her no and she shouldn’t have done it

I admit I’ve lost my patience lots of times too and shouted.

So why is that fine, but DH's behaviour is not? Or maybe neither is fine, but you're both just trying to parent the best you can, and are frustrated by the situation?

@sheepdogdelight His is just a bit too aggressive in my view

Sounds like you're pacifying bad behaviour tbh.

YABU

Honestly, this thread is nuts. How can anyone tell that the OP is 'wet'?!

She sounds like a very normal 5 year old testing boundaries. She can learn them in a number of ways.

I’ve tried everything since then, time out, taking things away, I admit I’ve lost my patience lots of times too and shouted.

Time outs/naughty step etc. don’t work because all you’re doing is pushing her away at a time she needs you most and not allowing her to regulate her emotions.

Taking things away is very rarely a natural consequence so won’t do anything except create anger, frustration and confusion as the discipline (not punishment - that’s important) doesn’t match the poor behaviour.

And shouting does nothing but tell her shouting is okay when we are angry/upset/frustrated.

It sounds like she hasn’t had chance to learn how to regulate her emotions.

”…he could have put some cold in and let her have a go at washing up, she just wanted to help”

This statement tells me that you’re the pandering pushover and he was just trying to get the proper adult job of washing up done. How annoying to have such lack of support and parenting from the other partner. It’s plain as day why he’s losing his temper and she’s always kicking off testing the boundaries.

@YellowTreeHouse And, I ask again…what would you do, any advice???

Consistency from both parents. You and dh need to sing from the same hymn sheet. I feel like banging my head against a wall and mine does come crying to me as he views me as the soft touch. Our situation does sound very similar in that it’s mainly started since September and he started school. We recently sat down and discussed the approach - one warning and then on step. Rudeness or lashing out - straight to room. No need to be rough but we would physically carry him to his room
if he refused to cooperate. He can scream all he likes. My dh also has less patience and it winds me up as sometimes I feel like his reactions escalate the situation. Due to this, he can tap out and I will step in and take over after a signal from him but I won’t interfere or undermine him in front of them. It’s bloody hard work. We’re finally getting somewhere though. I feel for you. A month or two ago, I could have written your post (and I was a bit wet and wishy washy too).

@UWhatNow I don’t pander to her at all, but I also sometimes let her go with an opportunity to help/get involved if we’re not in a rush etc (which we weren’t as weren’t going anywhere and she just wanted to help) Dh has zero patience in most situations with her, she likes to help
pass him the wood for the fire or clean tbe windows, instead of just calmly showing her how/doing it with her as an opportunity for connection, he gets impatient and says no. She’s not behaving badly in any of those situations

This is one of those situations where it’s impossible to ask an Internet forum for advice, in my opinion, OP. The reason being that you need to witness with your own eyes what’s going on - a bit too aggressive to an adult could be incredibly intimidating and terrifying for a child, it’s also possible his behaviour escalates. I understand your concern and that you have your child’s best interest at heart. Would you say he is aggressive in general, that he’s prone for this? Could it escalate?

There’s also a possibility your child is playing you. She’s sensed that you have a more gentle approach and that she gets comfort from you after she’s been told off by her dad. Kids are experts at playing parents - my two know exactly who to go to in regards to what problem they have. So yes your DH clearly doesn’t have the same parenting approach as you and maybe that’s part of his frustration. I’d be very frustrated if I’d firmly told my child no and the other parent then intercepted with cuddles and comfort. I’m not saying you’re doing this - I’m literally on the other end of a screen trying to advise a situation I haven’t seen.

I hope this is just a troublesome phase with your child and that you and your DH are able to calmly sit down and discuss your parenting and come to a compromise that suits both. It sounds like this is what you need to do first and foremost - have an open dialogue with each other.
Good luck and merry Christmas 🤶

A lot of people on mumsnet seem to think a four year old should have better control over their emotions than an actual grown up, adult, male.

It’s possible to parent without aggressive, she’s not responsible for his temper and she should never be made to feel she is.

I think that your different parenting styles has made problems inevitable.
Take the washing up situation. You would have added cold and allowed her to wash up. He just wanted to get it done quickly and doesn't want her to scald herself. As you allow negotiation and flexibility (which she will like as she maintains control) , she will inevitably be angry when dad does not because she's used to being able to have a say in this sort of thing.
I think that she's going through a delayed threenager stage and needs support dealing with emotions like anger. It's normal to get angry as she's a human being but sometimes no means no and there can't be a negotiation. While her reactions are physical, I wouldn't say she was aggressive- just unable to express her anger more positively.

At the end of the day only you know if your h is unnecessarily aggressive as we don't know him. If he is then you know what you have to do.

You need to sit down and agree a strategy for dealing with her which you stick to. Sounds like you're trying one thing, giving up too quickly, and trying another. You keep mentioning her strength, which I guess means she's using it so how you respond is something you need to agree on fast.

When DD was that size we had to explain why we were saying 'no', not just say 'no'. With an explanation she would accept, even if not particularly happily - so the 'I'm in a rush and you can't help with the washing up today, but you can tomorrow - never step up without asking as you may get burnt' - after we had removed her from danger. Stickers never worked for her, time out just created sulking - she needed an explanation. Frankly I found it exhausting, and looked a bit of a loon explaining things to her in detail, but over time it worked. I think she just needed to learn that we weren't being 'mean' (translation - not giving her what she wanted) for no reason.

Don't waste your time - when posters come to stick the boot in whilst offering no actual constructive help its always worth an AS before responding.

When did your daughter start school? 4/5 year olds often show a regression at home as they adjust to the discipline and hours of school. This fades as they adapt to a more intense day.

Might be worth reminding DH that children learn first and foremost from example and if his reaction is in temper, she will learn that is what gets results. If he can stay calm whilst disciplining or removing her from a situation the message can be conveyed just as firmly but without teaching them a temper tantrum is what wins out.

OP your DD sounds a lot like mine. I have found that she mirrors mine and DH's behaviour, so if we react with anger/frustration then she also escalates. If we set boundaries calmly and take our own emotions out of it, she responds a lot better. Check out Hand in Hand parenting by Patty Wipffler :) it's been a game changer for us.

@Feedingnightmare Thank you, I will look, yes that’s exactly it. She often repeats things Dh has said to her in conversation, like ‘How dare you!’ and so on, but hate all the awful words and conflict, it’s completely wearing.