To be depressed and angry that sex offenders will be able to “change gender”

[Ramblingnamechanger]

Following last nights vote by MSPs to reject an amendment to forbid sex offenders from accessing easier access to a GRC, it seems that womens rights to privacy and decency , same sex care , etc is not important. They are still to vote on the whole bill but until the legalities are clearer, surely this cannot be acceptable?

Re the safeguarding and nurseries point of view, once more people become aware of the loophole this may become an own goal in that I think it will make it harder for trans people to get jobs in these sectors. Because which responsible childcare provider (for example) is going to risk employing someone knowing there's no way of checking their past unless they choose to? One or two of the inevitable scandals and nobody will risk it.

Is there anything to prevent people transitioning multiple times? So John transitions and gets GRC and BC as Brenda, then gets a new one a while later back to being male but now they're Robert? Cos if that's possible we are creating a bloody criminal's free for all.

This whole thing is an absolute shit show. How the SNP think this is a vote winner beggars belief. It's been pointed out on the media here in Scotland that NS wanted to get this hurried through before Christmas as one of her main foes on this matter is returning from maternity leave in Jan. her finance minister!! I've known Ash Reagan as a school mum in the past, we were never great friends - she unfriended me on FB when it was clear we had differing views on independence!! But I must say I'm very impressed with her stance in her resigning from the gov. on this matter. Well done Ash.

I just cannot understand NS’s reasoning. She seems like an intelligent woman. How could she drive this? How could they also vote against the appropriate data collection - what is their reasoning? It’s just inexplicably awful. The fact that a woman has driven this blows my my mind. WT actual F.

I can’t help but wonder whether she’d have done this had she a loved one that might be on the receiving end.

What is all this "sex offenders" and "on the receiving end"?

The prejudice and hate for trans people is alive and well on Mumsnet it seems.

Most are just living pretty standard, law abiding lives but sure, smear them all with your Daily Mail hate driven fictional fears. Or do you have evidence of trans people being inclined towards sex offending? Thought not.

Who said anything at all about trans people when referring to sex offenders - I didn’t? Somebody may be conflating the two but it isn’t me 🤔

What we know to be true: any male in Scotland can now decide they’re female. Including those that are in a male prison. Including those that are sex offenders. I am confused in fact, why trans people would want this change to occur, given how easily people (like, let’s see… yourself) confuse genuine people with gender dysphoria with Kevin the rapist who fancies a holiday in the women’s estate. Good news though - no data required to track so maybe we can pretend it’s not happening, if we don’t care about women. I think ‘receiving end’ is quite self explanatory, when you’re a woman, with any type of life experience or empathy.

I can find plenty of evidence of these issues already occurring and men continuing to offend at the rate of, er, men, when identifying as women. But I wouldn’t like to distract you from calling me a Daily Mail reader. I’d say it takes one to know one, but I don’t identify as a DM reader, sadly. Most of us on Mumsnet, do not.

"Who said anything at all about trans people when referring to sex offenders - I didn’t? Somebody may be conflating the two but it isn’t me 🤔"

It is in the title of the thread..............But sure, let's pretend that didn't happen.......

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/anger-trans-inmates-revert-males-25840252
It's not that they're trans that's the problem, it's that they're male sex offenders who will use any loophole they can get.

I don't get why people can't see the glaring problems with this.
How about actually engaging with the issue rather than brushing it aside with "it'll never happen"?
It is happening right now, and useful idiots who refuse to see what the problem is are complicit in the rape and abuse of women.

You can scream transphobe all you like, everything apart from full capitulation to the ideology is transphobic as far as I can see.

More people are waking up to this, do you really want to be one of the people that argues that it's fine for rapists to be in prison with women, just so you can feel all right-on about yourself?

Try thinking for a minute.

You were quoting me. But you can pretend that didn’t happen We are after all in the new Scottish world of whatever we say is real, is real. As long as we’re men.

I believe women can identify as men too. This law isn't just a male "privilege". You framing it in that way speaks to the prejudice you've already expressed.

It is also open to all people. Not just all the millions of imaginary trans sex offenders you all have in mind.

Again, one of us is combining ‘trans’ with ‘sex offenders’ and it’s not me.

It’s an interesting point you make there about ‘male privilege.’ I wonder if we would see women identifying into the men’s estate at the same rate as men into the women’s? If not, why might that be?

It is also open to all people. Not just all the millions of imaginary trans sex offenders you all have in mind.

You nearly understand where we're coming from.

This legislation is supposed to be for trans people, yes?

But it is open to all people, including people convicted of sexual offences. Do you think sex offenders are too stupid to see the opportunities here? Why might a convicted rapist want a new identity? Why might he want to be entitled to enter places where women are vulnerable? Why might he prefer to serve a sentence in a women's prison?

It should NOT be open to all people!

let me give you a compelling reason why this rush by the Scottish Government towards easily-obtained GRCs has serious implications for each and every one of us living in the UK.

Quite simply, it presents a wholly foreseeable threat to public protection. Wherever we live in the UK, we will pay the price. Let me explain.

Protecting the public was my legal responsibility for nearly 28 years. I served in English prisons first as a prison officer and thereafter rising through the grades to mid-ranking prison governor. Dealing with recidivists and risk assessing their potential for further offending was my bread and butter.

In March 2021, HM Prison Service introduced a new risk predictor tool known as OSP (OASys Sexual reoffending Predictor) to assess all adult male prisoners in England and Wales who were convicted of a current or previous sexual or sexually motivated offence. It proved to be rather more accurate than all previous processes used to predict a male sex offender’s likelihood of future offending and it enabled prisons and the Probation Service to tailor the management of these higher risk offenders more effectively both during custody and after release.

The reason why OSP is exclusively a risk predictor tool for men and why it cannot - and is not - used for women is because female sex offenders (statistically a vanishingly small group indeed) have vastly different motivations and patterns of offending. They have their own risk assessment process, an exclusively female-centred one.

I think you know where I am going with this.

OSP is not used for male sex offenders who have GRCs. They are automatically excluded because their legal sex is female. Instead, the risk assessment process for biologically female sex offenders is used, even though it is completely invalid for male-pattern sex offending and useless at predicting their future risk.

Don’t take my word for it. The Prisons Minister, Victoria Atkins, recently confirmed this legal loophole in the House of Commons.
From: women's rights network

Its open to all people, yes, including every last predator in the country.

And of course it's a male privilege. You don't see women clamouring to get into men's prisons do you? Women aren't beating men at sport. Or insisting on giving them intimate searches.

Men commit 99% of all sex crimes. Which doesn't change if they say they're women.

And just to be perfectly clear, of all the transwomen in prison, over half are there for sex offences or dangerous cat A offences. A huge statistical over representation.

Not really 'imaginary' is it?

And if you don't think they are 'really trans', take it up with Nicola sturgeon who, as you say, has made transitioning open 'to all people'.

To me only two things are possible - NS and the rest of them are too stupid to tie their own laces or they know precisely what they are doing. In either case, they should be nowhere near the levers of power.

Exactly, mach.

I think I've worked out why Sturgeon wants this - she wants a scrap with Westminster.

www.theguardian.com/society/2022/dec/22/sunak-government-threatens-to-block-scottish-gender-recognition-law

On R 4 at the moment…Helen Belcher saying that rules are never made to avoid a problem caused by a minority.. this goes along the lines of Oh well , it’s not really worth having laws against theft or burglary as it only happens occasionally. Ludicrous argument. And women perpetrate violence on other women so male violence is ok then.

It is also open to all people

iloveecakes, why should it be open to all people to change your legally registrated sex? Sex has nothing to do with gender, right? This is also for people who are not transgender, so do not have a medical diagnosis or have body dysphoria over their sexed bodies. So why would a government want it to be possible that anyone can change a legal characteristic used in discrimination prevention, safeguarding, healthcare and population statistics? Who does this benefit?

Clue: not women. Not even the transmen out there as they can't opt out of being female, however much they want to.

I see that Parliament is considering a veto for the law, so it may well have been a clever ploy by Sturgeon, to make out that they are interfering and need to be independent. That said, about 2/3 of Scottish people think that the law is a load of rubbish.

www.theguardian.com/society/2022/dec/22/sunak-government-threatens-to-block-scottish-gender-recognition-law

Rishi Sunak’s government is threatening to block a new law that would make Scotland the first part of the UK to introduce a self-identification system for people who want to change gender.

In a significant escalation that brings tensions around transgender rights into the constitutional arena, Westminster made clear it would consider a “nuclear option” of blocking the bill from going for royal assent, a move that would enrage supporters of the changes and nationalists.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11568061/UK-ministers-threaten-block-Sturgeons-new-gender-rules-never-seen-legal-powers.html

Westminster may resort to using powers that it has never wielded before as the row with Scotland over its controversial gender reforms bill escalated. The Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill was passed yesterday to jeers of 'shame on you' in Holyrood.

The vote puts MSPs on a constitutional collision course with Westminster as UK ministers consider the 'nuclear option' of stopping the bill from going for royal assent.

98% of rapists and sex offenders are biological males, it is not transphobic to ask for a clause prohibiting biological males from entering female single sex spaces such as women’s prisons, changing rooms, hospital wards, shelters etc. and to ask that when undertaking intimate medical procedures or providing personal care women have the options to request a biological female practitioner.

Where there is 3rd space provision such as at Hampstead where there are 3 ponds, Ladies (Kenwood), Mens (Highgate) and mixed (Hampstead) why do transwomen want to use the Women’s pond rather than the mixed? That is male entitlement. Transmen use the mixed pond.

It is also open to all people. Not just all the millions of imaginary trans sex offenders you all have in mind.

No one is imaging millions of sex offenders, so quit the hyperbole.

There will, however, be some abusing this law.

So my question for you is this. How many women being abused as a result is acceptable collateral damage for you?

Let's put a number on it.

Your posts are so depressing. You think you are here fighting the good fight and yet you don't even understand the arguments.

YOU are conflating trans with sex offenders, no on else is.

Regarding evidence of sex offending and transpeople...

There was a Swedish study a few years ago (find your own link) which found that transwomen commit sexual offences at the same rates as other males and yet in prisons in England and Wales 50 - 60% (it varies each year) of transwomen have a conviction for sex offences compared to 15 - 20% (again it varies each year) of male inmates.

If we know that transwomens pattern of sex offending is consistent with their sex then why are they so over represented in the prison statistics? Either the Swedish researcher's are wrong OR there are sexual predators claiming to be trans to exploit loopholes in the law in order to gain access to victims.

Which do you think is more likely? How do you think laws which destroy safeguarding help trans people?

Do you think it's time to inform yourself about this issue before accusing others of hate?

@Ramblingnamechanger No Helen Belcher we never make laws to avoid a problem by a minority, DBS checks on everyone working with Children are their because the majority of the public are Paedophiles, gun laws are because the majority of the public are gun toting Mass shooting wanabies, knife laws are because most of the public want to stab someone, Health and Safety etc.

Responsible law making is about identifying potential risks and mitigating them, identifying potential discrimination and mitigating or eradicating it

YANBU. I am depressed about this too. Scotland's Parliament is throwing away the safeguards for women and girls that have taken so long to build up. There are women and girls in Scotland who are going to pay the direct price of this in the form of sexual assault and rape. And if the victims refer to their penis-having attacker as "he/him" in court rather than "she/her", they will be guilty of "misgendering".