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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Re Ambulance/ nurse strikes

432 replies

TheWindIsChanging · 21/12/2022 15:17

The last thread reached 1000 messages so assume that means it automatically closes any thread so thought I would continue the debate. My view is that it is unreasonable for any person in charge of a person's life to simply down tools regardless of pay issues. I wouldn't disagree pay is too low but so are many jobs yet not all jobs carry the responsibility of saving lives which will be lost during the strikes.
It's no great shock the usual suspects are screaming about the tories again waving tiny fists around red faced incandescent with rage. The reality is increasing wages across the board would lead to an inflation death spiral which happened in the 70s further decreasing quality of life for all of us, not just the NHS workers.
Inflation is the main issue that causes issues with wages, and the reason for this is principally covid lockdowns which ( cue the drumroll) were brought in to protect the useless NHS... the irony that this same "service" is now complaining about economic problems which it helped to instigate is hilarious. I can't remember a single year in the last 20 where it wasn't nearly "bursting at the seems" and given the amount of tax payers money disappearing into it like the metaphorical black hole perhaps time it was scrapped. I don't see these same issues in other countries..a healthcare worker is not a typical profession as the basic goal is to save lives not abandoning ship. As others have said, all very well to type YABU, but I suspect the wind would change quickly if it was a relative who died as a consequence of these disgusting strikes which will cost lives make no mistake about it. That said, the same people raging about the state of the economy were labelling anyone not supporting lockdowns as a " granny killer" which anyone with an IQ over 70 could see would lead to this mess.

OP posts:
MushMonster · 21/12/2022 17:57

ditavonteesed · 21/12/2022 17:36

@MushMonster no it wouldn't work, nursing is a lot more complex than it was and is definitely a degree profession. Drug knowledge is essential. Just because it's prescribed doesn't mean you should give it, you should know interactions and give according to exact current observations. That's just one example.

This is one of the reasons short staffing is so dangerous. Nurses get moved to areas they are not expert in and have to spend time reading about every complex mediation for each patient.

Striking is about getting more nurses and making nursing an attractive profession. It's about staffing and patient safety.

I thought so, but worth asking!
I vote for giving medical degrees free of fees, with NHS years of work attached to it.
You will not believe it, but in Spain is doctors and nurses degrees are the ones which fill up quicker. They take as many as they calculate they need, plus the % of expected drop offs and a cushion figure.
They have good wages for the country. Secure jobs if they make it to the NHS. People strive to get in it if they have any inkling of a vocation.
For my experience as a patient, they have a higher rate of nurses to patients. Same for GPs. You never had issues getting an appointment there.
UK has a better economy than Spain. You would think that it translates to good services! I last lived there 18 years ago.

Nellodee · 21/12/2022 17:57

The nhs under blair

Isitsixoclockalready · 21/12/2022 17:58

Good point that. The government have wasted huge amounts of money over the last 12 years. Why is it that people seem fine overlooking that, not bothered about huge banker bonuses and expect people to just 'accept their lot'? I am not in a unionised job or on a fortune (although I do enjoy my job) but I don't begrudge people who are clearly that angry at the way they are being treated taking action - bear in mind that we are, for example talking about the least militant representative body that I could think of in the RCN - if even they are taking drastic action - doesn't that tell people something about the state of the country?

willithappen · 21/12/2022 17:58

A friend has had to give up her job as a nurse because she can't mentally handle it anymore. A women almost died because there was a lack of resources and staff around and despite her mentioning multiple times they still were not given the help needed.
They are working emotionally and physically being drained and worked to the core. They can't even take a paracetamol without being charged of theft
I'm actually worried about having to use the nhs anytime soon because I know I won't get the level of care I'd maybe need

All a bid to try privatise the nhs I think.

Clap for them one day then complain and throw them to the kerb the next. Shambolic

MarshaBradyo · 21/12/2022 17:58

DuncinToffee · 21/12/2022 17:57

Do you mean it is not a good idea to pay people proper wages because the government wasted so much?

Bit silly to paraphrase to this extent. It wasn’t code.

Labour won’t use PFI again, we are still paying for the last round. When they get in they’ll have to find another way.

TheWindIsChanging · 21/12/2022 17:59

ChateauxNeufDePoop · 21/12/2022 17:54

What have the 80's got to do with NHS satisfaction under a Labour govt?

so much for ignoring posts.. because the graph goes back to the 80s and when Blair was elected in 97 the population of Britain was 10-15 million lower.

OP posts:
Nellodee · 21/12/2022 17:59

Definitely bring back bursaries.

Togoodtobeforgotten · 21/12/2022 17:59

Tell me op where's the money for the NHS from Brexit that was promised?

Blossomtoes · 21/12/2022 17:59

MarshaBradyo · 21/12/2022 17:54

yeh no. Again

Oh, it’s you. I didn’t realise. I know that for some inexplicable reason, you hate me and get pissed off when I appear. Tough. 🙄

MarshaBradyo · 21/12/2022 18:00

Blossomtoes · 21/12/2022 17:59

Oh, it’s you. I didn’t realise. I know that for some inexplicable reason, you hate me and get pissed off when I appear. Tough. 🙄

haha whatever quote someone else not interested

Isitsixoclockalready · 21/12/2022 18:00

Nellodee · 21/12/2022 17:57

My memory is that the uk under Blair has both incredibly high user satisfaction levels and also was rated as the the global best value health service. It’s not easy to find stats from a specific year, but what I could find agreed with my memory. Feel free to provide counter evidence, but until you do, I will assume any claims of the nhs having always been this bad are absolute bullshit.

Yes, there was a good deal of investment under Labour during the Blair years, together with an emphasis on meeting targets and it certainly did have results.

ChateauxNeufDePoop · 21/12/2022 18:00

TheWindIsChanging · 21/12/2022 17:59

so much for ignoring posts.. because the graph goes back to the 80s and when Blair was elected in 97 the population of Britain was 10-15 million lower.

That's not what you put...

Puzzledandpissedoff · 21/12/2022 18:00

The same people raging about the state of the economy were labelling anyone not supporting lockdowns as a "granny killer" which anyone with an IQ over 70 could see would lead to this mess

Quite - though you missed off " murderers", "eugenicists" and a motley selection of obscenities

I wouldn't try to claim decisions around Covid were the only cause of the mess, much of which existed before it came along. Trouble is, so did the mindet of those who were making the decisions, hence the situation we're in now

DuncinToffee · 21/12/2022 18:01

MarshaBradyo · 21/12/2022 17:58

Bit silly to paraphrase to this extent. It wasn’t code.

Labour won’t use PFI again, we are still paying for the last round. When they get in they’ll have to find another way.

How would you paraphrase it then?

MarshaBradyo · 21/12/2022 18:02

DuncinToffee · 21/12/2022 18:01

How would you paraphrase it then?

I don’t need to, why would I, I posted what I wanted to say. It’s not vague.

Blossomtoes · 21/12/2022 18:03

TheWindIsChanging · 21/12/2022 17:59

so much for ignoring posts.. because the graph goes back to the 80s and when Blair was elected in 97 the population of Britain was 10-15 million lower.

The population was a bit lower, nothing like 10 million. it’s gone up 17 million since 1950.

flowerycurtain · 21/12/2022 18:04

I think as a society we have to start appreciating the shit jobs. The carers working nights and weekends doing personal care. Nurses dealing with everything from bodily fluids to dying children. Bin men. Farm workers who shut up hens at 11pm on an august bank holiday weekend. Cleaners. Teachers.

There is nothing inherently shit about these jobs except for their pay and lack of value. There's pride to be found in caring for the elderly, keeping the streets clean and feeding the nation.

But we're a lazy society. We want to wfh for a full time wage on 32 hours a week flexitime with every other Friday off. Those jobs above don't get that sort of luxury. Why would you want to work on a hot dusty baler that might catch fire for 70 hours a week when you could sit on your bum in an air conditioned office.

I'm on the fence as to whether I support strikes or not. I agree with what they're striking for and why. And I lean towards supporting fully after hearing the local news that some paramedics broke the picket line locally to respond to a critical rta nearby. I guess the only reason I don't support them is that I think everyone whose on this low pay should be striking. But then society would come to an even greater halt than it already is.

I'm just not sure society is ready for the answers. I think that involves honesty. Ring an ambulance for a sore tooth. Bog off and be sent the bill. Caring for family instead of working. Living as multi generational families for longer. Seriously going after the deadbeat dads who cause so many single mums on here to live in poverty. Keep a person alive into old age and sickness that you wouldn't put an animal through. No farting about with unnecessary crap - if you want plastic surgery or gender reassignment stuff you pay for it.

DuncinToffee · 21/12/2022 18:04

MarshaBradyo · 21/12/2022 18:02

I don’t need to, why would I, I posted what I wanted to say. It’s not vague.

It’s not a good idea to load it into us now

What do you mean then?

PinkWindows · 21/12/2022 18:05

Idratherbepaddleboarding · 21/12/2022 16:58

No, hence we’re all striking…

Quite.

reesewithoutaspoon · 21/12/2022 18:05

TheWindIsChanging · 21/12/2022 17:42

If you think healthcare workers not turning up to do what they are employed to do will not result in more deaths, feel free to ignore me as you're too stupid to converse with further.

Isnt it ironic then that due to the derogation agreement when striking that loads of wards were better staffed during the strikes than before them, due to the fact they legally had to provide safe staffing levels. So you argument against strikes doesn't wash

BustopherPonsonbyJones · 21/12/2022 18:05

booboo82 · 21/12/2022 16:12

How many care assistants go on strike ? Answer is none because we know if we did our residents would suffer , we are underpayed, overworked , short staffed , burnt out , massively under appreciated and looked down upon but guess what we keep going because we if we don't people genuinely suffer! But yes let's clap for the nurses ! Lol

Oh, for goodness sake. I think care assistants should be paid a damned sight more (and I would support you if you chose to strike too) but for the love of all that is holy, stop being a bunch of martyrs. You are doing yourself no favours and making life even more difficult for elder care in the future as your job is paid less well than working in a shop, so is increasingly unattractive. Accepting poor conditions is not a sign you are better than the nurses and ambulance drives who are on strike. It doesn’t make you more ‘caring’.

OP - YABU. The senior nurse who posted earlier summed it up for me.

TheWindIsChanging · 21/12/2022 18:06

Blossomtoes · 21/12/2022 18:03

The population was a bit lower, nothing like 10 million. it’s gone up 17 million since 1950.

British population 1997 = 58 million
British population ( that we know of) 2022 = 68 million

Comparing the two in terms of "patient satisfaction" accessing the NHS on the same size island is ridiculous.

OP posts:
CoffeeBoy · 21/12/2022 18:07

I used to work for the nhs, I walked about 5 years ago. I earn significantly more now.

when I was still working for them I remember getting a 1% pay rise one year as it was “all that could be afforded “ while MPs got 9%.

clarrylove · 21/12/2022 18:07

So, with all the ambulances queuing outside hospitals for hours - why can't they put two patients in one ambulance, thus freeing up one crew to get back on the road?

Blossomtoes · 21/12/2022 18:08

TheWindIsChanging · 21/12/2022 18:06

British population 1997 = 58 million
British population ( that we know of) 2022 = 68 million

Comparing the two in terms of "patient satisfaction" accessing the NHS on the same size island is ridiculous.

www.macrotrends.net/countries/GBR/united-kingdom/population-growth-rate

Try again.