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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Re Ambulance/ nurse strikes

432 replies

TheWindIsChanging · 21/12/2022 15:17

The last thread reached 1000 messages so assume that means it automatically closes any thread so thought I would continue the debate. My view is that it is unreasonable for any person in charge of a person's life to simply down tools regardless of pay issues. I wouldn't disagree pay is too low but so are many jobs yet not all jobs carry the responsibility of saving lives which will be lost during the strikes.
It's no great shock the usual suspects are screaming about the tories again waving tiny fists around red faced incandescent with rage. The reality is increasing wages across the board would lead to an inflation death spiral which happened in the 70s further decreasing quality of life for all of us, not just the NHS workers.
Inflation is the main issue that causes issues with wages, and the reason for this is principally covid lockdowns which ( cue the drumroll) were brought in to protect the useless NHS... the irony that this same "service" is now complaining about economic problems which it helped to instigate is hilarious. I can't remember a single year in the last 20 where it wasn't nearly "bursting at the seems" and given the amount of tax payers money disappearing into it like the metaphorical black hole perhaps time it was scrapped. I don't see these same issues in other countries..a healthcare worker is not a typical profession as the basic goal is to save lives not abandoning ship. As others have said, all very well to type YABU, but I suspect the wind would change quickly if it was a relative who died as a consequence of these disgusting strikes which will cost lives make no mistake about it. That said, the same people raging about the state of the economy were labelling anyone not supporting lockdowns as a " granny killer" which anyone with an IQ over 70 could see would lead to this mess.

OP posts:
ChateauxNeufDePoop · 21/12/2022 17:41

TheWindIsChanging · 21/12/2022 17:31

I support reforming the NHS, but not by striking. It's dangerous and will cost lives

Thanks for clarifying. Given the strikes are for multiple reasons and doing nothing will also cost lives I can ignore your rubbish then 👌

Puzzledandpissedoff · 21/12/2022 17:42

If this is why the Government has done nothing to resolve the crisis, then the Government has a responsibility to govern, to say what it actually thinks and means and actually do something about it

I agree completely, Walkaround - although Teresa May tried telling the truth about richer pensioners needing to use more of their assets towards their own care, and look what good that did her

Unfortunately success in politics depends on not telling folk things they'd rather not hear; for that kind of conversation what's needed is statesmen/women, and at present there aren't any

user1754980 · 21/12/2022 17:42

pointythings · 21/12/2022 17:01

OP, you keep dodging the question asked many times on this and the previous thread: what are nurses and paramedics supposed to do to make themselves heard if they are not allowed to strike? We need an answer.

You also seem to be wilfully ignoring the fact that the agreed settlement just about kept pace with inflation - and then inflation spiralled so it became a pay cut. After a decade of 'rises' which were also pay cuts. I realise you are a big Tory fan, but how much more do you expect people to take?

This is a different OP to other thread, what are you on about?

Upwiththelark76 · 21/12/2022 17:42

I 💯 support striking NHS workers . It’s a sad time when this is the last resort .

These people deserve so much more. Clapped on the doorsteps across the country not so long ago . How quick we forget .

Shame on the government .

TheWindIsChanging · 21/12/2022 17:42

ChateauxNeufDePoop · 21/12/2022 17:41

Thanks for clarifying. Given the strikes are for multiple reasons and doing nothing will also cost lives I can ignore your rubbish then 👌

If you think healthcare workers not turning up to do what they are employed to do will not result in more deaths, feel free to ignore me as you're too stupid to converse with further.

OP posts:
Togoodtobeforgotten · 21/12/2022 17:43

Tories are there blame they have been in power 12 years and they have totally messed up the NHS and schools are almost on their knees. I fully support the strikes!

Nellodee · 21/12/2022 17:45

Saying that the nhs was shit under labour too is absolute gaslighting.

Re Ambulance/ nurse strikes
Nellodee · 21/12/2022 17:46

Does anyone think 70% of people are satisfied with the nhs right now?

Lostinalibrary · 21/12/2022 17:47

I don’t see a debate…I see an ugly rant.

MarshaBradyo · 21/12/2022 17:48

Nellodee · 21/12/2022 17:46

Does anyone think 70% of people are satisfied with the nhs right now?

It’s still costing us though. And we could use those funds now even more.

Bunnyfuller · 21/12/2022 17:49

Covid didn’t cause this crisis. Tory austerity and siphoning off wealth caused this crisis. The inflation has happened despite wages have effective 20% drops. Because energy, and because big business taking advantage and passing that on.

People are dying because of the crisis in the NHS, and this has been going on a long time, not just how when we have the strikes. I honestly think we’re galloping towards some dystopian world where only the super rich have quality of life.

ChateauxNeufDePoop · 21/12/2022 17:50

TheWindIsChanging · 21/12/2022 17:42

If you think healthcare workers not turning up to do what they are employed to do will not result in more deaths, feel free to ignore me as you're too stupid to converse with further.

And whats the longer term effect of nurses leaving in droves and recruitment falling even further...?

DuncinToffee · 21/12/2022 17:50

MarshaBradyo · 21/12/2022 17:48

It’s still costing us though. And we could use those funds now even more.

Especially as this Government has wastefully spent or dubiously allocated £69 BILLION of taxpayer money since 2019.

Nellodee · 21/12/2022 17:50

I don’t understand what funds you expect to be diverted from where for what purpose.

ChopSuey2 · 21/12/2022 17:51

I wouldn't disagree pay is too low but so are many jobs yet not all jobs carry the responsibility of saving lives
**
I agree many people don't get paid enough, but if anyone deserves a good wage, surely the people who are literally saving lives should be top of the list?

As for the lockdown and furlough being to protect the NHS, it was to save lives. I think you'll find many NHS workers were risking their lives by going into work in COVID outbreak areas before we had any idea about effective treatment. We weren't at home furloughed, instead we are now dealing with burnout, moral injury, and mental ill health because of the things we saw and experienced on top of all the stress and unpaid overtime that has been the norm for years.
**

TheWindIsChanging · 21/12/2022 17:51

Nellodee · 21/12/2022 17:45

Saying that the nhs was shit under labour too is absolute gaslighting.

That graph looks like something taken from a primary school stat book.. No mention of the demographic re age/ sex etc or how many were surveyed. In any event, the British population was 12-15 million less in the 80s than it is now with lower demand on the NHS so what do you expect. The only disingenuous gaslighting is from you.

OP posts:
Isitsixoclockalready · 21/12/2022 17:51

TheWindIsChanging · 21/12/2022 15:17

The last thread reached 1000 messages so assume that means it automatically closes any thread so thought I would continue the debate. My view is that it is unreasonable for any person in charge of a person's life to simply down tools regardless of pay issues. I wouldn't disagree pay is too low but so are many jobs yet not all jobs carry the responsibility of saving lives which will be lost during the strikes.
It's no great shock the usual suspects are screaming about the tories again waving tiny fists around red faced incandescent with rage. The reality is increasing wages across the board would lead to an inflation death spiral which happened in the 70s further decreasing quality of life for all of us, not just the NHS workers.
Inflation is the main issue that causes issues with wages, and the reason for this is principally covid lockdowns which ( cue the drumroll) were brought in to protect the useless NHS... the irony that this same "service" is now complaining about economic problems which it helped to instigate is hilarious. I can't remember a single year in the last 20 where it wasn't nearly "bursting at the seems" and given the amount of tax payers money disappearing into it like the metaphorical black hole perhaps time it was scrapped. I don't see these same issues in other countries..a healthcare worker is not a typical profession as the basic goal is to save lives not abandoning ship. As others have said, all very well to type YABU, but I suspect the wind would change quickly if it was a relative who died as a consequence of these disgusting strikes which will cost lives make no mistake about it. That said, the same people raging about the state of the economy were labelling anyone not supporting lockdowns as a " granny killer" which anyone with an IQ over 70 could see would lead to this mess.

Time for an election maybe? Let the people decide who they agree with?

Blossomtoes · 21/12/2022 17:53

It’s still costing us though. And we could use those funds now even more.

That’s like calling complaining about your mortgage because you still have to pay your gas bill. The issue wasn’t PFI, without which we’d have had no new hospitals, it was the shit negotiations that allowed providers to get away with literally extortionate contracts.

MarshaBradyo · 21/12/2022 17:54

DuncinToffee · 21/12/2022 17:50

Especially as this Government has wastefully spent or dubiously allocated £69 BILLION of taxpayer money since 2019.

Plus the £50bn PFI Trusts are still paying. It’s not a good idea to load it into us now. We’re older as a demographic.

They won’t do it next time so we’ll see what Labour do for funds.

ChateauxNeufDePoop · 21/12/2022 17:54

TheWindIsChanging · 21/12/2022 17:51

That graph looks like something taken from a primary school stat book.. No mention of the demographic re age/ sex etc or how many were surveyed. In any event, the British population was 12-15 million less in the 80s than it is now with lower demand on the NHS so what do you expect. The only disingenuous gaslighting is from you.

What have the 80's got to do with NHS satisfaction under a Labour govt?

MarshaBradyo · 21/12/2022 17:54

Blossomtoes · 21/12/2022 17:53

It’s still costing us though. And we could use those funds now even more.

That’s like calling complaining about your mortgage because you still have to pay your gas bill. The issue wasn’t PFI, without which we’d have had no new hospitals, it was the shit negotiations that allowed providers to get away with literally extortionate contracts.

yeh no. Again

Blossomtoes · 21/12/2022 17:56

ChateauxNeufDePoop · 21/12/2022 17:54

What have the 80's got to do with NHS satisfaction under a Labour govt?

Nothing. We had a Tory government for the whole of the 80s. Dissatisfaction has rocketed in the last decade - remind me who’s been n charge?

Togoodtobeforgotten · 21/12/2022 17:57

Is that you Boris?????? Lol

DuncinToffee · 21/12/2022 17:57

MarshaBradyo · 21/12/2022 17:54

Plus the £50bn PFI Trusts are still paying. It’s not a good idea to load it into us now. We’re older as a demographic.

They won’t do it next time so we’ll see what Labour do for funds.

Do you mean it is not a good idea to pay people proper wages because the government wasted so much?

Nellodee · 21/12/2022 17:57

My memory is that the uk under Blair has both incredibly high user satisfaction levels and also was rated as the the global best value health service. It’s not easy to find stats from a specific year, but what I could find agreed with my memory. Feel free to provide counter evidence, but until you do, I will assume any claims of the nhs having always been this bad are absolute bullshit.