Re Ambulance/ nurse strikes

[TheWindIsChanging]

The last thread reached 1000 messages so assume that means it automatically closes any thread so thought I would continue the debate. My view is that it is unreasonable for any person in charge of a person's life to simply down tools regardless of pay issues. I wouldn't disagree pay is too low but so are many jobs yet not all jobs carry the responsibility of saving lives which will be lost during the strikes.
It's no great shock the usual suspects are screaming about the tories again waving tiny fists around red faced incandescent with rage. The reality is increasing wages across the board would lead to an inflation death spiral which happened in the 70s further decreasing quality of life for all of us, not just the NHS workers.
Inflation is the main issue that causes issues with wages, and the reason for this is principally covid lockdowns which ( cue the drumroll) were brought in to protect the useless NHS... the irony that this same "service" is now complaining about economic problems which it helped to instigate is hilarious. I can't remember a single year in the last 20 where it wasn't nearly "bursting at the seems" and given the amount of tax payers money disappearing into it like the metaphorical black hole perhaps time it was scrapped. I don't see these same issues in other countries..a healthcare worker is not a typical profession as the basic goal is to save lives not abandoning ship. As others have said, all very well to type YABU, but I suspect the wind would change quickly if it was a relative who died as a consequence of these disgusting strikes which will cost lives make no mistake about it. That said, the same people raging about the state of the economy were labelling anyone not supporting lockdowns as a " granny killer" which anyone with an IQ over 70 could see would lead to this mess.

because they only have 1 trolley in an ambulance and emergency monitoring equipment for 1 patient

From sky news What services will be directly hit?
There is expected to be widespread disruption to planned care, such as non-emergency operations and outpatient appointments.
Thousands of appointments and operations will need to be rescheduled as they are unlikely to be carried out on the day of action.

so you're talking rubbish which I think you know deep down

Ah the “small island over run narrative” what crap.

there’s plenty of money in rich Tory pockets to fix this crisis. They don’t care about working people and that’s why this crisis is happening.

And whilst we’re at it, why don’t we just fill the corridors with bunk beds and pile the ill one on top of the other?

clinics arent the same as wards you know

The size of the population is only an issue if you fail to invest in services. Plenty of countries with either a higher overall population or higher population density manage to do fund their services to suit.

As for where the money comes form there are various options including better fiscal management by the government (think they've wasted over £100b since Bojo was elected), increased tax on businesses, or increased tax on the elite.

The top 1% (approx 65,000 individuals) have enough personal wealth to wipe out the UK national debt and still have £15m each. I don't know about you but making 65,000 people just rich instead of ultra rich seems a much better option than letting millions suffer due to poorly resourced health services.

How ridiculous to suggest that certain people don't have the right to strike because their jobs are too important!
Can't you see the irony here OP?
These are the very people who deserve to be paid much better. They are literally saving lives but earn less than many less essential jobs.
What you are suggesting is that it is their moral imperative to keep working but that is absurd. It is their job. Why should they be held to higher expectations than any other person (accountant, manager, etc) in their (much better paid) job?

So, with all the ambulances queuing outside hospitals for hours - why can't they put two patients in one ambulance, thus freeing up one crew to get back on the road?

You want to put 2 seriously patients in a tiny ambulance with just 2 paramedics?
I don’t think people realise just how much care a sick patient needs.

There is expected to be widespread disruption to planned care, such as non-emergency operations and outpatient appointments.

So nothing life threatening then.

You're comparing planned care ( = electives) with ward staffing levels. That's comparing apples and pears. The fact is that under strike conditions, wards must have safe staffing levels. The fact is that safe staffing levels routinely do not happen when there are no strikes. Yes, building up a backlog is not good - but you can't compare the two in terms of impact of the strikes.

Your own link has confirmed what I said lol... christ you're dense, at least read and understand stats before posting them

It hasn’t. It’s not me who cannot read a graph.

nursingnotes.co.uk/news/workforce/hospital-wards-had-the-best-staffing-for-years-during-strike-action/

yeah no serious issues with ambulances not turning up and operations cancelled, completely fine. Are you therefore saying there is no difference with all these workers not in the NHS then currently on strike and if so what is the point of them being there ?

If they were en route, there would be only one tending to the patient. At least this would be two in the back. I'm not saying it's ideal by any means, but it's desperate times isn't it? A crew back on the road is the priority, surely?

There has is around 10 million more people now in Britain than there was in 1997 confirmed by your own link. The fact you aren't bright enough to even read your own link is quite funny

minus the has*

All the hand-wringing ‘but how will it be funded’ - are you fucking serious?! MPs wages have been raised above inflation year on year. Brexit is crippling the country, energy companies are making record profits and we spaffed billions away on shitty nepotism deals for PPE. The money is there, make no mistake, it’s the will that isn’t.

You have put this so eloquently, Battlecat. What people don't realise, until it happens to them, is the impact low staffing has on basic care and patient safety. My child had brain surgery recently. Over a 48 hour period, there was only 1 nurse qualified to give pain meds covering BOTH full-to-the-brim paediatric wards of one of London's biggest hospitals. This meant he got the meds he was supposed to get once in a 24 hour period, instead of every 20 minutes. This was not an isolated incident and we've, unfortunately, found the same issue in the 2 other major London hospitals we've been forced to visit as both in and out patients over the last few months.

I've no idea whether salaries in general are high enough. (Whether they are or not, my own observation is that working conditions are generally pretty poor and often physically difficult. Usually one would expect a higher salary to put up with more shit...) But for those who think salaries are high enough, how would you address the massive staffing crisis? Because right now, being a patient in a hospital is the most dangerous place you can be. You won't be cared for and, frankly, you'll be lucky to come out alive. The only way to change this is to have more fully qualified staff on per shift. How do you expect recruiters to find and retain staff when the job is known to be difficult and poorly paid?

Do you genuinely believe healthcare workers should be banned from striking and forced to accept whatever shitty conditions they get handed with no way of fighting back? What if they all decided to just quit instead? Should they be banned from quitting as well?

Well scrapping the white elephant that is HS2 would free up a few £Bil, seeing as it's costing somewhere between £3-4bil a year would be a start.

The link shows 7 million.

@Battlecat98
Your post should be on the front page of every newspaper.

2 trollies and 2 crew members in the back of an ambulance...how's that going to work. Would you like someone who is going vulnerable being place in An ambulance alongside someone who could be aggressive/vomiting/drunk etc?

It varies a tiny bit depending on what site you look at but even on your site it says for the Uk which isn't Britain incase you didn't realise.

1997 58.25 million
2022 67.5 million

How the hell is that 7 million? 😂