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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not have sympathy for my friend?

242 replies

lurkinglittleladybug · 20/12/2022 22:50

I have an old school friend who’s been complaining about her partner taking zero interest in their children. She’s a stay at home mum and her partner works full time and is in a well paid job. He pays the bills and for anything her and the children need but she complains he’s not emotionally present with them. He doesn’t spend any time with them or help out at all with childcare.

I would normally have a low opinion of a man who can’t be arsed to spend time with his kids, and it is a shame for the children. But it’s so difficult to be sympathetic with my friend. I kind of feel like she made her own bed with this situation.

After a year of her being with her partner (at this point they had a really good relationship and lived together) , she knew he was strictly childfree and had no interest in children. So I was surprised when she announced her pregnancy but congratulated her as she was clearly happy about having a baby. She later told me that she knew her partner wouldn’t want to start a family so she just stopped taking the pill without telling him. He stays with her but becomes somewhat emotionally distant, I expect he was in shock. Friend was confident he would change his mind once their baby arrived.

After the baby is born he just takes zero interest, but she has lots of support from family. Nothing changes for a couple of years and then she announces she’s expecting her second child. I congratulate her, again I’m surprised, I had no idea they were trying. She then confides in me that she sabotaged the birth control again, this time the condoms they were using. At this point I make it clear I disapprove of her doing this. She becomes tearful saying what choice did she have and that her child needed a sibling. So I let the subject drop. Not wanting to be the asshole making my pregnant friend cry even though I think it’s a shitty thing to do.

Anyway now she has 2 children and she is complaining about how her partner has just emotionally checked out, not just with her children but also with her. He’s not interested in intimacy and is just going through the motions. It looks like their relationship is well and truly headed for the rocks this time.

I just find it so hard to be sympathetic with her, I mean what did she expect would happen? 🙄… Although obviously I’m very sad for the 2 children who face growing up with an emotionally distant dad…

Am I a terrible friend for not having sympathy for her?

I’m really struggling to stay friends with her knowing what I know, I just feel like I have lost respect for her. Although its difficult to end the friendship because we have known each other for such a long time.

OP posts:
sst1234 · 21/12/2022 08:31

DuplicateUserName · 20/12/2022 23:42

Am I a terrible friend for not having sympathy for her?

No, what makes you a terrible friend is starting this thread about her on a public forum.

She only did it so people like you could open the thread, read it all, then climb on your moral pedestal and tell her off. It’s a public service.

User434356 · 21/12/2022 08:31

IMO any woman (or man) who tricks their partner into an unwanted pregnancy is wrong. I think it's a despicable action.

-The man here was deceived.
-He assumed his wife was on the Pill.
-He didn't know his condoms had been punctured.

Yes, genuine accidents can happen if contraception fails.

But in those cases, the couple have an adult conversation about what to do next (incl. termination).

Because we have to assume that they have already agreed not to have a family ( or 'not yet'.)

So, no, I don't have sympathy with your friend.

If you can find the generosity of spirit to forgive her actions and offer support if they split up, great.

But, I'd find it hard not to speak my mind and remind her she'd created the current situation.

theonlygirl · 21/12/2022 08:32

So, the guy makes very clear he doesn't want kids. Your friend decides she knows better and gets pregnant. I imagine in her fairytale head he was gonna take one look at the baby, fall in love and be an amazing dad. He didn't. At this point any sane person would stop at one child, but no, her kid must have a sibling so she puts holes in condoms to produce another. Condoms that were obviously being used to prevent further contraceptive failure. I have zero sympathy for your friend. What she's done is outrageous, utterly selfish and deceitful. And damaging to her children. She should be grateful he financially supports her, stop moaning and crack on with looking after the kids SHE wanted. When someone tells you they do not want to be a parent you respect their choice, and find yourself someone who does. You don't ruin someone else's life.

Luckystar7jf · 21/12/2022 08:34

Hi op, I wonder if your friend’s situation may have triggered a particularly strong emotion within you. Do you have a partner/children ? Do your negative feelings towards her go deeper than just not liking what she has done ?
What your friend did to her partner is very wrong. Unfair to him and to their poor children but she has not personally hurt you only her actions have.
If I was you I would not distance myself but have a heart to heart. Explain how you feel, why you struggle with empathy. You can say is assertively.
You life your life she’s made her bed.

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 21/12/2022 08:35

she knew he was strictly childfree and had no interest in children

Then she deceived him twice and now wonders why he has no interest in the children or her?

Although to be fair, if he was so adamant he didn't want kids, he could have had a vasectomy.

I'd find it hard to find sympathy for her too, and I very much doubt her relationship with her 'DH' will last much longer. Advise her to get a job and get her finances sorted out as I predict he will move on with a younger, child-free model who hasn't lied through her teeth to him.

ilovesushi · 21/12/2022 08:37

I feel sorry for your friend. What a hard situation for her. She must have thought that he would come around once the baby was born. I've known friends' DHs who were not keen on having a family but were smitten once their DC arrived and became the most devoted dads. It is a sad situation for all of them. Awful for the children to grow up feeling unloved. Hopefully as they get a bit older she can become financially independent and move on from him. It sounds horribly disfunctional.

User434356 · 21/12/2022 08:37

Oh come on on @Luckystar7jf ! Is there any need to patronise the OP and ask if this has triggered any emotion? FGS!

I am not emotionally involved at all.

But I can make a call on any woman who tricks her partner into not just one, but two, unwanted pregnancies.

It's the oldest 'trick' in the book, often used by women to get men to stay with them and 'mend' a failing relationship, OR like the woman here, to just press on with her own wants, and disregard everyone else.

Nothing to do with being 'triggered'.

It's a moral stance on terrible behaviour.

User434356 · 21/12/2022 08:39

Although to be fair, if he was so adamant he didn't want kids, he could have had a vasectomy.

Why would he put himself through surgery when there is birth control that works if used properly? Belt and braces of the Pill & condoms works if someone doesn't sabotage it.

fancyacuppatea · 21/12/2022 08:40

PlaitBilledDuckyPuss · 21/12/2022 07:17

As a childfree by choice person myself, my sympathy for your friend is zero.

And me.

If I'd done that to DH he would have run far, far away.

She's fortunate that he's funding her and her childrens lives, rather than paying the minimum through CS.

Sunbird24 · 21/12/2022 08:44

I appreciate the differences a PP pointed out with the physical risks for a woman of an unwanted pregnancy as a result of stealthing compared to the risks for a man. However, a woman in that situation has the choice to terminate the pregnancy, whereas the man gets no say and (barring anything going wrong) is then tied to a child he never wanted for the rest of his life, as well as a woman who deliberately tricked him into that situation. Of course some may grow to love the child, but you wouldn’t bank on it. Look how many men turn their backs on children they seemed to want in the beginning…

I’m childless rather than child-free, and a few people suggested I just go out and sleep with someone to get pregnant but not tell them. I couldn’t, the whole idea of doing that to someone is completely abhorrent to me. Even worse if you claim to actually love them!

Smartstuffed · 21/12/2022 08:48

Nimbostratus100 · 20/12/2022 23:50

well, he did create children, so unless he didn't know how it happens, then they really are equally his responisbility

Well, he didn't have any choice with having a second child. Sabotaging the condom was a wilful, selfish act on her part.

Daleksatemyshed · 21/12/2022 08:49

I couldn't listen to her complaining about his lack of emotional involvement Op, he's probably miserable and taking refuge in his work. She's had all her own way by utter deceit and now thinks he should be happy too. I'd be telling her I didn't want to hear about it, if she's unhappy it's her own doing.

Xmasbaby11 · 21/12/2022 08:52

I would have lost respect for her a long time ago and couldn't be close friends with someone so dishonest. That's an awful position to put a man in. But you are still friends so that point has passed. I would have limited sympathy too, so I would just keep a distance.

NantsIngonyamaBagithiBaba · 21/12/2022 08:55

From some of the replies, I'd say there's been a few that have also tricked their partners in to kids they either didn't want, or weren't ready for at the time.

Got to laugh at the posters still insisting it's the man's fault. Seems women are unable to be conniving, deceitful, selfish cunts, and men just need to have surgeries instead of being able to trust their partner.

MotherofDogs3 · 21/12/2022 08:58

I think alot of women on here are condoning her behaviour because they themselves have pretended to their partners they had an "oops baby" 🙄 Sadly I see this happens alot and the poor man has to just put up with it and stay even though they never wanted kids/ weren't ready yet. Its the Poor kids who end up suffering at the end of the day.

CitizenofMoronia · 21/12/2022 09:00

Nimbostratus100 · 20/12/2022 23:50

well, he did create children, so unless he didn't know how it happens, then they really are equally his responisbility

Bulllsh!t! he trusted her to take the pill, and then when that didn't work he used condoms FFS.
He was totally within his rights morally to walk away at the first one and many people would have.

KimberleyClark · 21/12/2022 09:02

I also wonder if the posters insisting it’s the man’s fault believe there is something fundamentally wrong with men who don’t want children.

gannett · 21/12/2022 09:04

I'd absolutely be distancing myself from this friendship. Unforgivable behaviour and if someone shows themselves to be deceitful and selfish in one way, it's likely they'll be so in other ways as well.

harrassedmumto3 · 21/12/2022 09:04

She's made her bed, as the saying goes ...

Franklyfrost · 21/12/2022 09:04

I am amazed at how many replies there are downplaying tricking someone into having a child. To make such a life changing decision for someone else, against their wishes and to do it through deception is a horrendous thing to do. She will be manipulative, selfish and dishonest in other areas of her life too, no wonder her partner is distant.

harrassedmumto3 · 21/12/2022 09:05

Nimbostratus100 · 20/12/2022 23:50

well, he did create children, so unless he didn't know how it happens, then they really are equally his responisbility

Nonsense. She sabotaged the condoms!

Everydayimhuffling · 21/12/2022 09:08

People on here have an absolutely wild idea of how easy it is to get a vasectomy! A young man with no children? No chance!

Someone doesn't have to wrong you personally for you to think what they have done is wrong and to not want to be friends with them.

OP, I wouldn't be able to be friends with her. I think what she's done is morally reprehensible. Her poor children and husband.

Pothoswithasparkle · 21/12/2022 09:08

NantsIngonyamaBagithiBaba · 21/12/2022 08:55

From some of the replies, I'd say there's been a few that have also tricked their partners in to kids they either didn't want, or weren't ready for at the time.

Got to laugh at the posters still insisting it's the man's fault. Seems women are unable to be conniving, deceitful, selfish cunts, and men just need to have surgeries instead of being able to trust their partner.

I learned on MN that nothing ever comes from our heads except cleaning that needs to be done. Everything is man's fault/thoughts/wants.
Shaving your legs? Cause patriarchy! Not shaving your legs? Cause patriarchy!

Except how to clean the sink well, we have no own thoughts or opinions. All our actions or inactions are caused and ruled by men.

Hence, i deduced that we need men otherwise we would all be just stuck in a loop of cleaning bathroom and kitchen and sitting in a corner not knowing whether we should shave armpits or not😔

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 21/12/2022 09:13

Why would he put himself through surgery when there is birth control that works if used properly?

But it wasn't. She tricked him twice. She is the awful one in this and I'm amazed he's still with her at all to be honest.

Tripsabroad · 21/12/2022 09:16

I have zero sympathy and couldn't be her friend knowing she did this.

Doesn't it count as rape if a man removes his condom without the woman's consent during sex? It's certainly no better in my mind if the woman sabotages her contraception without the man's knowledge.