To not have sympathy for my friend?

[lurkinglittleladybug]

I have an old school friend who’s been complaining about her partner taking zero interest in their children. She’s a stay at home mum and her partner works full time and is in a well paid job. He pays the bills and for anything her and the children need but she complains he’s not emotionally present with them. He doesn’t spend any time with them or help out at all with childcare.

I would normally have a low opinion of a man who can’t be arsed to spend time with his kids, and it is a shame for the children. But it’s so difficult to be sympathetic with my friend. I kind of feel like she made her own bed with this situation.

After a year of her being with her partner (at this point they had a really good relationship and lived together) , she knew he was strictly childfree and had no interest in children. So I was surprised when she announced her pregnancy but congratulated her as she was clearly happy about having a baby. She later told me that she knew her partner wouldn’t want to start a family so she just stopped taking the pill without telling him. He stays with her but becomes somewhat emotionally distant, I expect he was in shock. Friend was confident he would change his mind once their baby arrived.

After the baby is born he just takes zero interest, but she has lots of support from family. Nothing changes for a couple of years and then she announces she’s expecting her second child. I congratulate her, again I’m surprised, I had no idea they were trying. She then confides in me that she sabotaged the birth control again, this time the condoms they were using. At this point I make it clear I disapprove of her doing this. She becomes tearful saying what choice did she have and that her child needed a sibling. So I let the subject drop. Not wanting to be the asshole making my pregnant friend cry even though I think it’s a shitty thing to do.

Anyway now she has 2 children and she is complaining about how her partner has just emotionally checked out, not just with her children but also with her. He’s not interested in intimacy and is just going through the motions. It looks like their relationship is well and truly headed for the rocks this time.

I just find it so hard to be sympathetic with her, I mean what did she expect would happen? 🙄… Although obviously I’m very sad for the 2 children who face growing up with an emotionally distant dad…

Am I a terrible friend for not having sympathy for her?

I’m really struggling to stay friends with her knowing what I know, I just feel like I have lost respect for her. Although its difficult to end the friendship because we have known each other for such a long time.

I truly don't understand why she risked telling anyone. I'd be taking that secret to the grave personally.
I don't know that I'd cut her out if she's a good friend, but she wouldn't be someone I'd confide in as she's capable of being untrustworthy and self centred. And I wouldn't be offering tea and sympathy if she were rumbled by her DH.

Would you say that to a woman who had been repeatedly sexually assaulted, that she 'allowed herself to be fooled?'

At the end of the day, if you have sex you must take on the responsibility that you could end up with a pregnancy and subsequently a baby, regardless of the contraceptive you use. Nothing is 100% effective. Even a vasectomy.

But that doesn't take away the malicious behaviour of lying about taking the pill, and damaging condoms. That's seriously evil and cruel to the person who was clear they don't want a child and did take preventive measures before having sex, and to the children that were born out of that situation.

He needs to have a vasectomy, leave this woman and step up for the children whether he wanted them or not because they exist and he is their father. I feel for them all having a wife and mother capable of doing this.

I wouldn't be friends with her going forward because we'd have completely different morals and I'd worry how she would treat other people in her life if she didn't get her own way.

There's some truth to the idea that if you have sex, you should realize that pregnancy, and a child, is a possible outcome. For both men and women, and even with sterilization procedures. It's rare, but there are pregnancies that happen after people are supposedly sterilized, I know of one that happened after both partners were sterilized.

So to some extent, if you want 100% assurance of no pregnancy, celibacy is the only option. But I think most of us realize that lots of people won't do that. Especially since in our culture we are generally taught to believe that having sex without pregnancy is a sort of right we should expect.

That being said, there is a huge difference when you talk about an individual purposefully sabotaging agreed upon attempts at birth control. And if the husband in this case came to suspect the wife had become pregnant on purpose, maybe after the second pregnancy, I am not surprised he'd be emotionally distant. It would be very difficult to overcome that kind of distrust and I think it could easily affect the relationship to the kids as well, as much as it shouldn't. And then, if the relationship functions at a level where the wife felt justified in that kind of betrayal, it may well be that there are other problems in the marriage that affect his ability to engage. Being a workaholic could easily be a coping mechanism because he feels a duty to stay in the marriage, it is very hard to be married to someone you neither like nor trust.

I don't see what's wrong with posting about it anonymously on a public forum. This is one of the best way for people to discuss the ins and outs of real life behaviour. The alternatives are naming and shaming people, absolute silence and a lack of engagement on a significant ethical issue that touches us all, or a sanitized discussion about a pretend scenario no one has any stake in or feels any emotional connection to and so people parroting what they think others expect them to say.

There's a place for the last of those within academic and professional circles, but it doesn't help the general public wrestle with the issues involved.

There should be trust. My H didn't want more children. I wanted one more. I respected his decision and didn't sabotage contraception or lie.

I’m really struggling to stay friends with her knowing what I know, I just feel like I have lost respect for her.
Struggling in what way? Because you want to drop her but feel guilty for it, or because you want to stay friends but she;s making it hard for you?

Although its difficult to end the friendship because we have known each other for such a long time.
It's doable, you;d just need to bite the bullet, also maybe wait it out until next time she settles in for a moaning session, so it's not out of the blue, it's a response to a specific behaviour.

If you don't want to end it:
"Mate, I can't keep hearing about this. It makes me uncomfortable to know damaging secrets your husband doesn't, & I need you to keep it to yourself or find a therapist, because I'm not qualified to deal with it."

If you do want to end it:
"Mate, I can't keep hearing about this. It makes me uncomfortable to know damaging secrets your husband doesn't, & I need you to keep it to yourself or find a therapist, because I'm not qualified to deal with it.
I'm going to take a step back because I'm burnt out from constantly hearing how dissatisfied you are that it didn't go quite the way you planned, & your expectation that I wouldn't empathise with the predicament you caused your H. Sorry, can't do it any more, I'll be in touch when I've had some space."

Then don't get in touch.

I’m a man who had the first scenario play out, in that birth control pills were in place but my then partner came off them prior to conception. Despite me checking in at the time did I need condoms? I was lied to. Needless to say I dumped her immediately.

Where I differ from the OPs partner is I have always very much wanted to be a father, so am a very proud and happy one. I also now have sole custody of my child, as my ex has been a nightmare ever since I left her, this of course unfortunately bled over into efforts to co-parent with her effectively.

I would caution anyone making too direct a parallel between this sort of contraceptive fraud, and the “stealthing” that men do to women. It was a violation sure, and maybe even in principle should be similarly illegal, but I didn’t have the potential physical ramifications on the table from actually being pregnant, which can be life changing and severe. This I believe makes it a simply more severe crime when it happens to a woman.

What I would say however is I would challenge the victim blaming language on this thread, and those who use it should be ashamed of themselves. The man in question entered into a relationship in good faith. Even stating up front he never wanted children, we all know contraception has a very small risk of failure and he was willing to take that small risk. He was not however willing to assume the risks attendant to entirely unprotected sex which by his wife’s deception he was unknowingly taking. Thus his consent was violated. He is the victim here.

I would ask the question to the OP and forgive me if I missed it. Does the husband even know of these two deceptions? Were they revealed to him at any stage? If not I’d say everyone who knew and did not tell him have ultimately condoned what this woman did, and by preserving the first deception allowed his wife to perpetrate the second. If he doesn’t know I believe it is high time he is informed so he can finally make an informed choice with regards to his own future.

Finally the wretched circumstances for these two poor children. None of us are “owed” children, and obviously children thrive when they are wanted dearly by both parents. I’m not even sure the mother was really discharging her responsibilities for the first child by throwing a second into the mix in an already tenuous situation. I very much worry for the outcomes for these two little ones. At least my ex had the wit to perpetrate her deception on someone who actually wanted children.

You can never guarantee you're not going to die in a motorway crash either, but you can't be blamed if your co-pilot wrenches the wheel from you & drives you both into a truck.

Poor kids, they are the true victims in this situation.

The relationship is over, trust gone for good, its just a matter of time before it implodes. He probably thinks he is doing his best by staying with her under the circumstances, and is grappling with the ethics of what to do after being put in such a position by someone you trusted and loved. I hope for the children he can find it in himself to do his best by them. Personally I think he has a better chance of doing that away from the person who abused his trust.

@Millie2008 Also... why didn't he get a vasectomy if he was that adamant about being child free? Especially after the first pregnancy!

This ^

Why? I know of at least two women that deceived their partners to get pregnant. It's hardly an outing thread, is it?

Sadly I think it is a lot more common than many people realize.

Bit shutting the stable gate if he wasn't aware the first pregnancy was likely to be happening though? Or are we supposed to raise our sons to assume any woman they enter a long term, loving relationship with might be lying?

Pretty hard to get a vasectomy above what 35? In the UK on the NHS? Of course he could have funded it privately, but then again maybe he assumed his partner was on the same wavelength as him?

My Dd had to massively push for her tubes tied at 24 after 3 pregnancies with the same partner, and they only reason she had it done was because she needed a c section due to her 1st pregnancy being an emergency one, so all others followed. She stated numerous times that the many, many contraceptives they tried didn't suit her. And believe me other than abstaining they tried. Her partner is 28, and they still refused to give him a vasectomy. It's not always that clear cut.

If you’re someone’s friend you can not be happy about a situation they’re in, and perhaps totally disapprove BUT the friendship part is where you hate seeing them unhappy and be there to listen to her. This is a long term thing, not a once off thing, so you’re either in or out, this is baggage that comes with her (imo)

Nope, I honestly wouldn't have much sympathy there.

None at all, in fact.

Oh go away, anyone can post anything

👏

@Starrylight Or are we supposed to raise our sons to assume any woman they enter a long term, loving relationship with might be lying?

I wouldn't put it quite so bluntly but yes, they should be made aware that communication in relationships is paramount and they should make sure ( and keep making sure). they are on the same page as their partner.

In the same way we should hammer it home to our daughters that they should not even consider having a child unless they are emotionally, physically, financially and psychologically prepared to raise that child alone.

Wow, her friend disapproves of her tactics, lies and deceit and her friend is the spiteful one? Really ?

The person in question has deceitfully got herself impregnated by a man she professes to love and then complains he isn't emotionally invested. If this relationship doesn't last I'd be very surprised if it does) then this womans games has contributed to her poor relationship and harm to her children. Disgusting behaviour.

If it were possible for the shoe to be on the other foot I can just imagine the vitriol directed at a man for doing this... and I'm a woman.

Your struggling with your friend as she has no standards or morals, I would fucking struggle with her too. She's a selfish cow that wanted a baby no matter at what cost. BTW, I'm the child in this situation and my father is a selfish shit who never wanted children but my mother didn't care, she just wanted a baby.......

If he really didn’t want children he could have had a vasectomy.

In my entire life I have never met a woman who tricked a man into impregnating her by lying about being on the pill or sabotaging condoms.

I have however heard misogynistic generalisations claiming that women do this.

But if a man has no interest in becoming a parent then that is very easily solved by having a vasectomy.

I have known men who have had a vasectomy and claimed that it was a very easy, minor procedure that was quickly recovered from and well worth doing.

We're talking about bringing life into the world.
Absolute beyond shitty to dupe someone into having children when they've explicitly said they don't want.

If roles were reversed there would be utter uproar here.

This is beyond horrendous. And could have completely backfired on your friend.

A couple of people over the years have the disclosed the same and it never ended well.

Poor kids and husband.

Low contact is the way to go.

Oh just realised they're not married.

Well she's proper screwed if he takes off cos he's had enough. What a stupid friend she is for both admitting to doing what shes done and for not being smart enough to get married.

I can understand why in your heart you are finding it hard to feel sorry for her. She literally bought this situation on herself.