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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not want a stranger at Christmas?

816 replies

Oneeyedreindeer · 18/12/2022 22:15

My mother and brother were due to come to my house for Christmas. I am married with 3 DC, one of who is a young baby. Last week he randomly said he has a friend from abroad coming to stay for a month and if I don’t invite him he will be alone on Christmas Day.

i explained I don’t want a stranger there and it changes the dynamics with small children/breastfeeding etc. he is insisting I could meet the friend beforehand. He is like a dog with a bone and won’t drop it and keeps bringing it up/poor friend will he all alone etc etc. I’ve been clear that if he can’t come as he needs to be with his friend that’s fine and now I feel very mean indeed. But AIBU? I just think it would be very awkward indeed and I do also think there’s an element of my brother wanting to park up for some free/food drink with his friend - he suggested bringing his games consoles “for DC to play” although DC are 4 and under.

OP posts:
LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 19/12/2022 15:43

A lot of people aren’t reading my posts which is why I have people rooting for my brother and his Chinese boyfriend despite saying many times he has a gf!

😂😂😂😂

poefaced · 19/12/2022 15:45

Flapjackquack · 19/12/2022 09:54

100% this. It’s all well and good shouting misogyny if the OP was just expected to cook by her whole family whilst they all sat round waiting to be fed, but OP openly admits she insists on cooking and doesn’t want people to help in the kitchen.

I never complain about having to do everything because I don’t do everything. I treat my husband like an adult with all the expectations that has, and between us we do 50/50 housework and childcare (actually it’s more 60/40 him/me as I work longer hours). Christmas Day we both cook if we are hosting or pitch in if parents are. You don’t get to insist on doing all the work then complain about having to do all the work!

Show quote history

What are you on about? OP’s DH is helping her, based on her actual help needed.

My husband cooks the Xmas meal and plans it all and cooks it all. He does not need or want me to cook.

I’ll help by cleaning, decorating etc.

Help doesn’t always mean letting people cook the bloody potatoes.

And just because OP has divided the tasks so she cooks doesn’t mean she is obliged to invite her emotionally blackmailing brother to sit and eat and fart all day on her sofa
with his friend.

Flapjackquack · 19/12/2022 15:50

poefaced · 19/12/2022 15:45

What are you on about? OP’s DH is helping her, based on her actual help needed.

My husband cooks the Xmas meal and plans it all and cooks it all. He does not need or want me to cook.

I’ll help by cleaning, decorating etc.

Help doesn’t always mean letting people cook the bloody potatoes.

And just because OP has divided the tasks so she cooks doesn’t mean she is obliged to invite her emotionally blackmailing brother to sit and eat and fart all day on her sofa
with his friend.

Show quote history

Oh FFS, I posted that this morning, in response to another poster. The thread has moved on since then. But fine view it out of context completely to suit your agenda 🙄

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 19/12/2022 15:50

poefaced · 19/12/2022 15:45

What are you on about? OP’s DH is helping her, based on her actual help needed.

My husband cooks the Xmas meal and plans it all and cooks it all. He does not need or want me to cook.

I’ll help by cleaning, decorating etc.

Help doesn’t always mean letting people cook the bloody potatoes.

And just because OP has divided the tasks so she cooks doesn’t mean she is obliged to invite her emotionally blackmailing brother to sit and eat and fart all day on her sofa
with his friend.

Show quote history

That poster is talking nonsense and is trying to trip up the OP by making out she’s a martyr because she doesn’t get her little elves to chop the veg.

DailyMailReporterTellMeAllYourSecrets · 19/12/2022 15:50

Yes, it will change the dynamic. Back in the day when I was with my ex-husband, he invited his grandad to stay with us for our first Christmas with DS. I’d literally never clapped eyes on the bloke before. The three of us hardly spoke for most of the time he was there and it was so awkward.

Original poster
Oneeyedreindeer · 19/12/2022 15:50

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 19/12/2022 11:10

So if it isn’t about wifework why can’t the DB do that at his own home?

Show quote history

I Am not complaining at all about the food element of this. There will be the food - I don’t care about him having my food. I care about the dynamic shift and feeling comfortable in my home. And I care about my brother being what I think is a bit of a CF, probably stemming from him never having hosted Christmas and wilfully ignoring the huge expense and effort/taking it for granted and wanting to rock up with 0 help or effort with a buddy when I’ve said no!

OP posts:
poefaced · 19/12/2022 15:53

Oneeyedreindeer · 19/12/2022 15:50

I Am not complaining at all about the food element of this. There will be the food - I don’t care about him having my food. I care about the dynamic shift and feeling comfortable in my home. And I care about my brother being what I think is a bit of a CF, probably stemming from him never having hosted Christmas and wilfully ignoring the huge expense and effort/taking it for granted and wanting to rock up with 0 help or effort with a buddy when I’ve said no!

Show quote history

A 35yo man not taking his turn at hosting is shameful.

If he won’t take a turn hosting then he should contribute in other ways, with money, with food, with washing up etc.

poefaced · 19/12/2022 15:54

Flapjackquack · 19/12/2022 15:50

Oh FFS, I posted that this morning, in response to another poster. The thread has moved on since then. But fine view it out of context completely to suit your agenda 🙄

Show quote history

Nothing has changed. The context hasn’t changed.

You just can’t defend your view.

Daisybuttercup12345 · 19/12/2022 15:56

You don't know this man. I wouldn't have a strange person around my small children on Christmas Day. Mother can come if she likes, brother can stay at home with his friend and entertain him.
Brother just wants free food to go with his computer games.

KettrickenSmiled · 19/12/2022 15:57

I have always tried to be the 'have you eaten yet?' type of person. My parents were always very welcoming inclusive hosts. It results in so many rich and diverse relationships and experiences.
This sounds lovely @ArabianLeopardCub
I'm just puzzled why so many PP are aiming their ideas of Hospitality Fail at OP, instead of ... the guest's actual host, who sadly doesn't share your kind & open-hearted approach, & would rather dump his friend than host him himself.

In this circumstance I would be welcoming to the friend.
So would I.
I bet OP would be too. But some PP seem to be forgetting whose guest he is.
The brother is so UNwelcoming he is using the friend as a brinkmanship pawn, telling OP he is prepared to leave the guy alone at his house if she won't kowtow to absolving him of his hosting duties by ... taking them up herself!

Put yourself in his shoes. I cannot imagine going to stay with a friend and not being welcomed in this scenario. It is so cold.
It's astonishingly cold. Of the brother. Who is using the classic manipulator's tactic of making out that he/the friend are the victim of OP's refusal to host, instead of his own refusal to plan for accommodating his own friend on xmas day.

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 19/12/2022 15:58

Oneeyedreindeer · 19/12/2022 15:50

I Am not complaining at all about the food element of this. There will be the food - I don’t care about him having my food. I care about the dynamic shift and feeling comfortable in my home. And I care about my brother being what I think is a bit of a CF, probably stemming from him never having hosted Christmas and wilfully ignoring the huge expense and effort/taking it for granted and wanting to rock up with 0 help or effort with a buddy when I’ve said no!

Show quote history

Agree OP and don’t let Angeline make your feel like you’re being unkind

Flapjackquack · 19/12/2022 16:01

@poefaced and what is my view given you’ve obviously read all my posts.

I have repeatedly said, OP not being unreasonable, doesn’t need to invite him, would be nice but no obligation, brother is a CF but that the reasons don’t other people have given are absurd. So far we’ve had the OP is some sort of handmaiden and it’s a feminist issue, the guy is foreign so doesn’t care about Christmas, it’s the friends fault for booking his holiday over Christmas, it’s a safeguarding issue.

So please tell me which part I need to defend there?!

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 19/12/2022 16:07

Flapjackquack · 19/12/2022 14:27

@WomanStanleyWoman2 - I said tuned, not turned. Googling would have probably told him that at Christmas in the UK family and friends get together, put up decorations, have a big meal and swap presents. His friend, the OP's brother, had said it's ok to come stay for December. Where in that is someone not immersed in the UK's weird and unspoken rules around social engagement is the poor man meant to guess that he wouldn't be welcome to spend Christmas with his friend's family so he should avoid coming to the UK over 25 December??

Turned, tuned… the point is the same. Although your argument seems to change with every post. First of all he shouldn’t have been expected to know Christmas was even a thing in the UK. Then you thought it would usual for him to assume he’d be welcome in a stranger’s home?

If you’re going to be in a different country at a time that’s typically a big family celebration time, wouldn’t you at least check that you wouldn’t be intruding? Of course he may have done and the brother might have said “Fine” - but most people would be a bit reticent about inviting themselves at such a time.

Original poster
Oneeyedreindeer · 19/12/2022 16:09

ArabianLeopardCub · 19/12/2022 15:01

I don't agree with that at all. Completely overthinking the whole thing. I can guarantee if the brother offered to host Christmas that would be a problem too and the OP wouldn't want to go.

He wants to spend Christmas with his family and he doesn't want to leave his friend alone. The brother quite frankly sounds like the only reasonable person in this whole situation.

Are you my brother?

my brother would never offer to host. Ever.

OP posts:
ArabianLeopardCub · 19/12/2022 16:09

Daisybuttercup12345 · 19/12/2022 15:56

You don't know this man. I wouldn't have a strange person around my small children on Christmas Day. Mother can come if she likes, brother can stay at home with his friend and entertain him.
Brother just wants free food to go with his computer games.

It is a good job Mary didn't say this about the 3 Wise Men and the Angel Gabriel isn't it. Not to mention those Shepherds. You wouldn't have Christmas at all if she took your attitude.

Original poster
Oneeyedreindeer · 19/12/2022 16:12

poefaced · 19/12/2022 15:45

What are you on about? OP’s DH is helping her, based on her actual help needed.

My husband cooks the Xmas meal and plans it all and cooks it all. He does not need or want me to cook.

I’ll help by cleaning, decorating etc.

Help doesn’t always mean letting people cook the bloody potatoes.

And just because OP has divided the tasks so she cooks doesn’t mean she is obliged to invite her emotionally blackmailing brother to sit and eat and fart all day on her sofa
with his friend.

Show quote history

😂😂😂😂😂😂

OP posts:
Original poster
Oneeyedreindeer · 19/12/2022 16:12

I asked DB if we should come to him Boxing Day. It was an instant no!

OP posts:
Flapjackquack · 19/12/2022 16:12

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 19/12/2022 16:07

Turned, tuned… the point is the same. Although your argument seems to change with every post. First of all he shouldn’t have been expected to know Christmas was even a thing in the UK. Then you thought it would usual for him to assume he’d be welcome in a stranger’s home?

If you’re going to be in a different country at a time that’s typically a big family celebration time, wouldn’t you at least check that you wouldn’t be intruding? Of course he may have done and the brother might have said “Fine” - but most people would be a bit reticent about inviting themselves at such a time.

Show quote history

That’s not what I said, is it now. I said he wouldn’t be expected to know the ins and outs of Christmas and then said if he had looked he still wouldn’t have been able to learn the more nuanced dynamics. How is that a different argument. He is relying on his friend here to help with that. Most people being reticent to invite themselves, you mean most British people. Different cultures have different norms around hospitality.

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 19/12/2022 16:14

ArabianLeopardCub · 19/12/2022 15:31

Can you not understand though why the brother would not want to host Christmas alone with his friend? Most people I know want to be with others at Christmas, especially family if this is possible. The more the merrier vibe.

Two male friends having Christmas alone seems quite sad. It is not weird for people to want to spend it with their family. He probably doesn't want to admit to his friend that his family are so unwelcoming that he can't bring him to celebrate with them.

Why is it ‘sad’ for two friends, male or otherwise, to spend Christmas Day together? The brother can’t be that arsed about seeing his family, or he wouldn’t have agreed to having a guest of his own over Christmas without checking it would be okay to bring him on Christmas Day. The friend isn’t that bothered about being with family or he’d have stayed with his own. Who is ‘sad’ here?

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 19/12/2022 16:16

Most people being reticent to invite themselves, you mean most British people. Different cultures have different norms around hospitality.

Which is why it’s a good idea to research the culture you’re visiting. Britain IS the different culture that needs to be respected here.

KettrickenSmiled · 19/12/2022 16:21

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Herein lies the problem.

Of course you'd welcome your DC's friends. I bet you've taught them to be open-minded & accommodating, with a warm attitude like yours to friends from abroad.

But the subject of this thread isn't OP's child, & sadly he doesn't appear to have been brought up with the same mindset as you & your DC. He certainly hasn't discovered it for himself.

He's just demanding that she caters to him like a manchild - or else - GUILT TRIP & DARVO!
Absolutely classic manipulation he's done on his sister -
www.banyantherapy.com/darvo/
DENY - "I refuse to hear your 'no', it is not valid, because only my agenda counts here. Stop saying 'no', it is an unacceptable reponse"
ATTACK - "If you don't give me what I want, I'll leave the guy at home & make YOU feel guilty about that so I don't have to acknowledge my own culpability"
REVERSE - "I will persist in insisting you comply with my demand. If you don't host & cook for my friend, I will blame you, to cover up my own refusal to ... host & cook for my friend"
VICTIM - "You're still making me bang on at you daily about this. How can you expect me to look after my own friend? I even offered to bring a games console 'for the kids', what do you mean they're too young to be able to play on it? I'm the good guy here!"
OFFENDER - "You're FORCING me to leave him at home on his own. You're making me feel bad. This is all your fault."

OP's lucky to have seen through it - it can be pervasive & subtle in action - as per some of the PP responses, so taken in by DARVO that they've adopted it as fact, & are blaming OP for the Host Fail!
Brilliant innit? Sinister, but brilliant ...

VickyEadieofThigh · 19/12/2022 16:22

Oneeyedreindeer · 19/12/2022 16:12

I asked DB if we should come to him Boxing Day. It was an instant no!

Did you ask/did he say why not?

Flapjackquack · 19/12/2022 16:26

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 19/12/2022 16:16

Most people being reticent to invite themselves, you mean most British people. Different cultures have different norms around hospitality.

Which is why it’s a good idea to research the culture you’re visiting. Britain IS the different culture that needs to be respected here.

You think he would be able to learn what to do in this specific scenario from the internet? As shown on this thread some families would be more than happy to have a friend of a relative, other families wouldn’t be as they’ve made very clear here. British people often don’t say what they really mean. I am not sure why or how you expected the friend to learn the nuances of British social norms for a holiday. OP’s brother probably said it was fine and the friend accepted that, that isn’t disrespectful at all. I am not sure why you are trying to make out the friend is unreasonable here. It’s clear it’s the brother that is the issue.

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 19/12/2022 16:27

Flapjackquack · 19/12/2022 16:26

You think he would be able to learn what to do in this specific scenario from the internet? As shown on this thread some families would be more than happy to have a friend of a relative, other families wouldn’t be as they’ve made very clear here. British people often don’t say what they really mean. I am not sure why or how you expected the friend to learn the nuances of British social norms for a holiday. OP’s brother probably said it was fine and the friend accepted that, that isn’t disrespectful at all. I am not sure why you are trying to make out the friend is unreasonable here. It’s clear it’s the brother that is the issue.

Show quote history

I think people are just suggesting he should know it’s Christmas on 25th December and that’s a huge holiday for people in the UK.

CuteAsDuck · 19/12/2022 16:27

Wouldn't annoy me if I was hosting personally. We've had house guests before who we've only met in passing and I'd host a friend or siblings partner who id not met without a thought so wouldn't see hosting their friend as much different tbh.

However everyone is different in what they are comfortable with so YANBU.