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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Support thread for those hosting Ukrainian refugees.

149 replies

UltimateFoole · 13/12/2022 13:17

I've started this new thread so that this support can continue for anyone hosting Ukrainians under the H4U scheme. Also for those thinking about hosting. And for anyone who has previously hosted and still needs support.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4552566-support-thread-for-those-hosting-refugees-and-advice-for-those-thinking-about-it?reply=122239451&utm_source=sendinblue&utm_campaign=Mumsnet_Watched_Thread_Notification_New_Talk&utm_medium=email

OP posts:
VenusClapTrap · 21/12/2022 08:15

Some excellent points raised.

I’m still no further on with finding somewhere for my family to rent. So frustrated with the barriers the lettings agents put in place.

The husband is successfully finding work painting and decorating and I’ve been helping him find a car to buy. He’s being a bit picky though and I just don’t have time to keep driving him to look at vehicles with Christmas rapidly approaching.

Christmas itself is a logistical headache, we will be bursting at the seams with the Ukrainians plus all the usual guests.

I’m as extrovert as they come but even I’m starting to fantasise about running away to a deserted island.

whatkatydid2013 · 21/12/2022 12:12

@LaurelGrove thanks. Yes think you are right that there probably is also a degree of resentment at times though I recognise it isn’t reasonable. Fingers crossed this will be a good solution

whatkatydid2013 · 21/12/2022 12:17

We are all decamping to my parents for Christmas as they have more space than us. I wish you luck getting yours figured out as admit I was struggling with how we’d fit everyone in

Ukri · 21/12/2022 12:31

I feel resentful and our guests aren't even in the same house as us. It's my own fault though. We shouldn't really have offered since we didn't think through how difficult it would be to bring the arrangement to an end.. But we are now not receiving rent for the property plus we are paying all bills and things like internet and so its costing us way way more than the contribution we get. It's costing in the region of £1,000 a month. Our guests on the other hand have around £1500 a month in benefits.

We will be asking them to pay all utilities and other bills in March when their 12 months is up.

LaurelGrove · 21/12/2022 14:49

@Ukri why not ask for bill payments from 1 January? It's completely unrealistic for adults to live rent and bill free forever. If they are resistant that is a problem you can raise with the council. The guidance is hidden but very clear. There is no reason at all you should be subsidising your guests at the stage.

Xenia · 22/12/2022 08:01

Laurel that sounds a fair way to deal with your guest. Some of the descriptions on this thread - cooking fish at 11pm - is very similar to my student age or just over that children although one seems to cook at even 3am sometimes which is particularly annoying.

(On the Afghan point above I believe we are paying to house 9500 in hotels still www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/15/afghan-refugees-in-uk-told-to-find-new-homes-on-rightmove and 7000 others have been rehoused having been in hotels before that. )

RedToothBrush · 23/12/2022 08:54

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-11567897/Natalia-daughter-came-UK-Homes-Ukraine-scheme-homeless.html

This is a surprisingly really fair and balanced article about where the Homes For Ukraine scheme now leaves guests and hosts.

Nimbostratus100 · 23/12/2022 09:03

Odessafile · 20/12/2022 12:34

@Xenia I was under the impression hardly any Afghans came here. The homeless on the streets tend to have drug or alcohol addictions so very different from refugees.

I work with street sleepers as a volunteer- when I am well enough to - most are refugees, mostly from Iran, Afghanistan and and Somalia. There is no housing for refugees. There is housing for asylum seekers, but they lose it when they get refugee status. I've evven known individuals without limbs or eyes moved out onto the street when they get refugee status

I have taken in refugees for many years.

Xenia · 23/12/2022 09:19

Nimbo, yes that is consistent with my post above - the 9500 Afghans we are housing currently in hotels will be some of the 120,000 asylum seekers part of the very long backlog of cases. The 7000 rehoused over and above those 9500 will be others and I am sure that will leave a lot of others unhoused. We have 18m people more in the UK compared with when I was born and not enough housing.

Red, yes a balanced article. I didn't understand why the first lady, a doctor in Ukraine, could not get a better job in the UK as a full time job even as a nurse never mind a doctor would enable her to rent a private sector tenancy but she is keen instead to have social housing. May be her English is not good enough or her qualifications for the UK health services. Taking her and her daughter into a one bed flat with the host family was very kind of the long term original hosts. They also didn't have her leave until she had another home.

Erith1985 · 23/12/2022 09:38

Good to see a support thread carrying on - I really do think hosts need a space to vent, share experiences, support each other etc without being told they are heartless / their guests have it worse!

My guest is moving out in January after 8 months. Still no job, they are going to another host family that the council has found. I have felt so torn between empathy for their position, knowing I wouldn’t want to just take “any” job, and feeling a bit taken advantage of as all their effort seems to go into attending parties, day trips to museums and posting gym selfies. Plus the normal house share gripes - cooking really strong smelling food day and night, banging the heating on to 25 degrees in a COL crisis, never leaving the house and just being “there” all the time and never being able to count on a quiet night in alone, which were the reasons I wasn’t already renting the room. They have good English, they could definitely have found clerical work for well above minimum wage, but they didn’t want to. When we’d talk about it and they’d go on a tangent about starting their own business and worrying about top rate tax rates I just wanted to scream - not working until my dream job comes up isn’t a luxury I have, I’m working every day in a job I don’t love (and very far from top rate tax!) to pay the mortgage and bills that are giving you the luxury to spend today posting a ten story arc about your day out at Harry Potter World…!

I think the advice about getting a contribution no matter how small is a good one - I definitely that creating a bit more of a sliding scale towards independence would have helped. But I’d also just say that nothing beats a straight up conversation, and setting boundaries. I got some great advice on that in my thread on this, and if I had my time again I would be setting out my boundaries early, in no uncertain terms, and also being quite up front about what you can expect from council support since I do think my guest thinks that the council would just sort them out with comparable accommodation no matter what and didn’t seem to understand at all what would happen if they were actually declared homeless.

tinselvestsparklepants · 23/12/2022 10:10

Really interesting reading other experiences on here. I share looking after a family and I'm also struggling with the fact that the mother won't take jobs she doesn't like the look of, believing that she deserves much better, whilst I work mad hours. I know her situation is rubbish but still... meanwhile her daughter has got herself a college place and a job, and I couldn't be more proud of her (she's 17). I am worried though that they are not sorting out anything for housing for when the time is up.

VenusClapTrap · 23/12/2022 11:08

I was awake half the night worrying about how we are going to find them somewhere to move on to. They’re working flat out and have done since day 1. But the commercial letting agencies won’t accept them because her job isn’t permanent and his job is self employed. I’ve even offered to pay their rent for them for the year, upfront in a lump sum, so there’s zero financial risk to the landlord, and they still won’t accept it.

Sorry I think I’ve already ranted that on here but I’m just feeling quite desperate about things now and sleep deprivation is making it worse.

Lubli456 · 24/12/2022 19:56

Mine have gone to Ukraine for Christmas…

Cranberrygin · 29/12/2022 23:26

I’ve had a Ukrainian family (mum and 2 kids) staying in my 2 spare rooms. They came here for 1 to 2 months to look for private rented accommodation (the relationship with their previous UK host having not worked out) but since then it’s become clear that this wasn’t actually their intent. I was also misled about their circumstances (they have a house in a safe area on the western border of Ukraine). I do feel quite grumpy about this, as it means I can’t have guests or my kids to stay here. I wouldn’t have agreed to the temporary host agreement if I had known it was going to be for so long. But otherwise the arrangement works ok. The mother is now in full time work and could afford to rent, but probably would not get the standard of accommodation/area/free child care she has here. She wants to stay in my home until at least the end of the school year next year, which would take us up to over 10 months. I’ve agreed to extend their stay to 6 months, but I know she wants to stay longer. We’re now at the 4 month stage and I need to give her notice. I’m feeling nervous about this, as there was shouting and tears when I asked about her finding rented accommodation before. She says she’ll find another host, but that seems unlikely in this area. Does anyone have experience of guests who don’t want to leave? I guess that the council will have to house them if I kick them out but I think this should be a last resort. I’m not sure what to do!! I feel like such a grumpy old cow but I really do want my home to myself again.

RedToothBrush · 30/12/2022 00:13

Cranberrygin · 29/12/2022 23:26

I’ve had a Ukrainian family (mum and 2 kids) staying in my 2 spare rooms. They came here for 1 to 2 months to look for private rented accommodation (the relationship with their previous UK host having not worked out) but since then it’s become clear that this wasn’t actually their intent. I was also misled about their circumstances (they have a house in a safe area on the western border of Ukraine). I do feel quite grumpy about this, as it means I can’t have guests or my kids to stay here. I wouldn’t have agreed to the temporary host agreement if I had known it was going to be for so long. But otherwise the arrangement works ok. The mother is now in full time work and could afford to rent, but probably would not get the standard of accommodation/area/free child care she has here. She wants to stay in my home until at least the end of the school year next year, which would take us up to over 10 months. I’ve agreed to extend their stay to 6 months, but I know she wants to stay longer. We’re now at the 4 month stage and I need to give her notice. I’m feeling nervous about this, as there was shouting and tears when I asked about her finding rented accommodation before. She says she’ll find another host, but that seems unlikely in this area. Does anyone have experience of guests who don’t want to leave? I guess that the council will have to house them if I kick them out but I think this should be a last resort. I’m not sure what to do!! I feel like such a grumpy old cow but I really do want my home to myself again.

You aren't in the NW are you?

whatkatydid2013 · 30/12/2022 07:55

Cranberrygin · 29/12/2022 23:26

I’ve had a Ukrainian family (mum and 2 kids) staying in my 2 spare rooms. They came here for 1 to 2 months to look for private rented accommodation (the relationship with their previous UK host having not worked out) but since then it’s become clear that this wasn’t actually their intent. I was also misled about their circumstances (they have a house in a safe area on the western border of Ukraine). I do feel quite grumpy about this, as it means I can’t have guests or my kids to stay here. I wouldn’t have agreed to the temporary host agreement if I had known it was going to be for so long. But otherwise the arrangement works ok. The mother is now in full time work and could afford to rent, but probably would not get the standard of accommodation/area/free child care she has here. She wants to stay in my home until at least the end of the school year next year, which would take us up to over 10 months. I’ve agreed to extend their stay to 6 months, but I know she wants to stay longer. We’re now at the 4 month stage and I need to give her notice. I’m feeling nervous about this, as there was shouting and tears when I asked about her finding rented accommodation before. She says she’ll find another host, but that seems unlikely in this area. Does anyone have experience of guests who don’t want to leave? I guess that the council will have to house them if I kick them out but I think this should be a last resort. I’m not sure what to do!! I feel like such a grumpy old cow but I really do want my home to myself again.

Let the council know you can’t extend past 6 months, that your guests need help to sort accommodation after that and that their preference would be a new host in same area if possible. They may be able to find someone particularly with the thank you payment due to increase once a family has been here for a year.

VenusClapTrap · 31/12/2022 15:58

How was Christmas for everyone? I was pretty stressed about having 11 people in my house, but actually it was lovely. Ukrainian lady and Dh together cooked Ukrainian apple duck with sour cherry sauce, and it was amazing. We introduced them to the delights of flaming Christmas pudding with brandy butter which they loved. Visiting family, friend, Ukrainians and the dc all got on really well and it was all very cosy and lovely.

Best Christmas present of all, an acquaintance who has a cottage close by has agreed to rent it to my Ukrainian family. Initially she’d said they’d have to go through the agents, who of course said they couldn’t meet their (impossible) requirements, and landlady could not be persuaded to tell the agents to make an exception, even when I offered to pay the full year’s rent upfront for them.

Well she had a change of heart and rang me yesterday to tell me she’s instructing the agents to let them have it. I wouldn’t put it past the agents to sabotage things still, but now the landlady is actually in favour I feel really hopeful we could pull this off. I’m so happy for them that they’ll get their own space - and we’ll get ours back.

We might even lose some weight when the kitchen table stops being permanently loaded with cakes, pancakes and biscuits!

LaurelGrove · 31/12/2022 16:54

Oh Venus, good news! A Christmas miracle for you there.
Our Christmas was fine. My guest had a friend come and stay which made things less awkward and they enjoyed it very much, I think. I found it very stressful - managing my parents and guests I don't know and making sure everyone was ok - but we got through it. I know my guest was very happy to be included - she bought me some flowers to say thank you today which was thoughtful of her (and a vase so ugly I can't quite look at it - as my sister said, if ever there was a motivator to encourage me to have the tricky conversation about how to help her to move on to independent living, it's the knowledge that once she is no longer with us the case can go in a cupboard!).

And I'm glad we did make it nice for her, as the news is horribly bleak. We will tackle the next steps next week - she needs to think about living independently for her sake as well as ours, and we can't keep supporting her forever if she wants to properly integrate. But that is next year's problem.

WTF475878237NC · 02/01/2023 16:04

Happy new year to all the hosts.

Really struggling to get the council to find temporary accommodation for our guests. Just wondering how everyone else got on? I posted on the last thread about how one of the adults had a job then quit after three months because it was hard work and since has only been looking for another hosting arrangement no job. I say looking but really I mean just posting on Facebook now and then. The other adult has been half heartedly learning English but is definitely able to work with the current level.

Recently one of them went on a few day trips and said what a great holiday it was and it really pissed me off. They have been able to save almost all of their universal credit from making one stew last four to five days and us buying staples and getting all of their clothes on arrival and toiletries etc.

It's been eight months and we gave the council and guests an original deadline of six weeks ago. I have now said this week is the end but I feel awful they're going to end up in a hostel aren't they?!

WTF475878237NC · 02/01/2023 16:13

Missed some of the earlier posts on this new thread.

"I got some great advice on that in my thread on this, and if I had my time again I would be setting out my boundaries early, in no uncertain terms, and also being quite up front about what you can expect from council support since I do think my guest thinks that the council would just sort them out with comparable accommodation no matter what and didn’t seem to understand at all what would happen if they were actually declared homeless."

^ I did all of this if it helps! Based on advice here I gave them lots of info within two weeks of arriving about when they'd have contribute, getting jobs, registering with social housing etc as well as stuff about how we live and our expectations before they even came. In reality it's made little difference and certainly hasn't stopped us getting in this position where they made all the right noises and nods but have taken no positive action towards independence at all.

Kingfisher99 · 02/01/2023 17:37

Hi everyone I volunteer with a matching initiative UK Welcomes Ukraine (you can Google us as not sure I can post links here). I have matched over two dozen hosts with Ukrainian applicants since April. I can assure anyone wondering that there is still a lot of interest from Ukrainians to use this programme. Russia is bombing critical infrastructure on a weekly basis this winter, so even far from the frontline people may be experiencing extreme hardship with air raids and electricity and heating not working properly.
I recently got in touch with people I have matched and for most people it is going well. I know of only three cases out of 20+ where the host-applicant relationship broke down causing upset. In the majority of cases the guests were invited to stay longer than 6 months.
If anyone is thinking about hosting I am happy to answer questions, and you are welcome to fill out a sponsor form on our website if you prefer to have some help rather than looking for your potential guests on social media.
To everyone hosting, thank you for opening your homes and making a difference in people's lives.

Mehmeh22 · 02/01/2023 18:37

Odessafile · 20/12/2022 12:34

@Xenia I was under the impression hardly any Afghans came here. The homeless on the streets tend to have drug or alcohol addictions so very different from refugees.

@Odessafile I can assure you there are refugees homeless on our streets having to go to temporary housing with those with addiction problems. My borough offer no support to them, especially if there is no statutory requirement, so if you're a single male, you have no chance. Which then causes problems because they end up making friends with the wrong crowd. I've seen it first hand. I've tried to help these people in my job and I've had people tell me they will commit suicide. The money and support thrown at the Ukrainians in comparison is really quite sickening to watch. Im not saying Ukrainians should not get support, but why support one group and not the other? But please, do not assume refugees get support.

Mehmeh22 · 02/01/2023 18:37

*all refugees get support

LaurelGrove · 03/01/2023 10:58

I think the issue is not necessarily that Ukrainians were deemed intrinsically more worthy of support than other groups but that the scheme was set up to allow a large number of people to arrive with minimal processing in a short space of time (of course, you could argue this in itself gives them preferential status over other groups and you could also argue that the scheme still had far too much red tape). But by giving them visas and allowing them to enter the UK on that basis, rather than seeking asylum or treating them as refugees, they were never going to be treated in the same way as those who enter in that way.

I do agree that they have had preferential treatment but it's more complicated than Ukrainians versus other groups of immigrants. I think - for example - the fact that the message about contributing to household living costs has been so hidden is an absolute outrage. All of them have been entitled to work or claim benefits from the point of arrival and as a result have been well placed to alleviate the financial burden on their hosts and yet still you see many hosts feeling uncomfortable about asking or being told - when they do - that that is what the thank you payment is for. There is no other group of people anywhere in this country - refugees, legal immigrants, illegal immigrants, asylum seekers, benefit claimants or citizens who are working here (or any permutation of this) who don't have to cover living costs to some degree.

My issue with the scheme is that they have been given a very generous deal in comparison to everyone else, and that while a grace period to settle in, rebuild and find their feet is entirely reasonable, some are still choosing not to work (I know of at least three locally who are refusing jobs that don't match the professional status they had in Ukraine) and not making a financial contribution to their hosts' costs. The point of giving them the right to work and claim benefits from the start was not to give them free money - it was to help them build an independent life here from the start. That message has not been communicated clearly and after nearly nine months it should be a lot better understood.

It makes me very uncomfortable. I hosted because I wanted to help and the need is undoubtedly there - my guest's home town is largely without power and has been shelled repeatedly over the last 10.5 months as well as being invaded at the start of the war. She's safe here, and working and contributing - I've no issue with her approach at all. But many of her friends have been much less diligent in their approach to life in the UK and are undoubtedly taking advantage of the scheme. It's a horrible situation to be in for anyone to lose their home and have to leave their country and we were right to be generous to Ukrainians. But not more generous than we are to other groups, wherever they come from. I work with asylum seekers, refugees and people in immigration detention and it makes me uncomfortable to see the gaping chasm between what they experience and what Ukrainians have been (rightly) offered.

VenusClapTrap · 03/01/2023 12:42

I agree with every word of that, Laurel.

My guests’ highest priority was finding work, and they’ve all grafted since week 1; even the 16yo has set up a dog walking business alongside college and online Ukrainian school studies.

Some others locally, not so much. One in particular who I introduced my guests to early on turned out to be appalled at the idea of working. She quickly navigated the benefits system and took advantage of the local food bank. My guests were horrified by her attitude and were very defensive to me about “She is not normal and not typical Ukrainian!”

I suppose people are people. Some have a fierce work ethic, some take the piss, and everything in between.

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