Religious friend says my mums in hell!

[Rosiesmydog]

Excuse the rather hysterical subject title! She didn’t actually say she is, only that she may be…
context: my mum died last month. She was 99 and very frail. She had Covid. That’s on the DC but afaic she died of extreme old age.
I met with a very good friend of mine last night. GF is very religious…I’m absolutely not. I don’t believe in the hereafter or god or any other deity. GF knows this but tolerates my ungodliness. GF offered condolences and let me rabbit on about my mum. All well and good…
I spoke about the funeral, how we had a celebrant but had a hymn as my mum did have a little bit of faith and did a lot with the church when I was a kid. However, my mum was often hard work and I jokingly made a throwaway remark about how I used to tell her she’d never go to heaven and she’d end up in hell (all in jest).

last night I got a msg from her, basically saying that if mum hadnt accepted Jesus as lord and saviour then she will be in hell and that I should accept him or I’ll end up there…
really don’t know how to respond to this! Feeling quite upset that GF has judged my mum by her standards and chooses to lecture me about my ungodliness. Seems very unchristian really given the circs.
just looking for some words of wisdom from you folks I guess. I don’t want to break a friendship, she’s always known how I feel about religion but I think she’s crossed a line here and I feel quite conflicted. Im tempted to just ignore and sweep it under the carpet, but it’s blighted what was a good friendship and at a difficult time for me, given my recent loss 😔. I now realise that joking about heaven and hell to a committed Christian is a big no no!

Your feelings are totally valid and it is difficult to receive this kind of message (nonsense) when you are grieving and to 'assume the best intentions' and to 'move on'.

Don't feel the need to respond right away. Allow your own emotions about your mother's death to settle a little. Death is a difficult process for those who are close to the ones that die, especially when the person who has died has human flaws. It is OK to reflect on her life as it was, in it's totality and to see the good, the bad and the ugly and to recognise your mother, as she was and as she was to you.

As you for your friend - when you are ready to examine that relationship, you may well be able to, in time, recognise that she too is a human with human flaws. You can choose to find a middle way between ignoring your differing views and carrying on, or distancing yourself.

I do find that in difficult times, our relationships with other people are less easy to navigate and the moments we need deep empathetic connection can reveal flaws in others, we find more difficult to gloss over. But take time, do not make any rash decisions.

Part of me would want to say - well if my mother is in hell, then for all her flaws, if there was a choice, I would rather be there with her, but as you know, I don't believe that there is a judgement process, because if there was, I think heaven would be a very empty place. But I would probably just keep that to myself and cry a little at the loss of something from that friendship.

I do believe that teaching children about the concept of "hell" should be considered a form of child abuse.

@AmadeustheAlpaca You said: ”OP knows that she is not unreasonable yet feels the urge to post her so called friend’s response.”
How do you know what OP knows?? OP has just lost her mother. Bereavement sometimes comes with a great deal of insecurity, vulnerability, doubts, fears and clouded judgement. Sometimes, the bereaved themselves manage to realise this only after many weeks, months or even years. This is why they should be protected from this kind of friends who prey on them.

Piemaggedon

“Forgive her. She does mean well. She doesn't know any better.“

rubbish. She’s just plain nasty.

The key phrase being "quietly"

Not "texting the child of a recently dead woman and saying she's in hell".

That's a dick move no matter how you try to spin it.

Yes…this is how I see it. Which is why I don’t want to be unpleasant back to her. I guess I just needed a place to vent and examine my feelings about this incident

I am so sorry for your loss. Your friend may believe what she said but she should have kept her mouth shut.

The official C of E position is that there is no hell. This is the RC position also as far as I'm aware. I don't know about the Orthodox. The Protestant denominations and sects are more likely to believe that only they are saved.

Please ignore your friend.

I had a friend who told me I was going to hell and I really should convert to save my soul (not christian) . See I believe it was a genuinely held belief and I’m not that bothered because I always made it clear I think he believed a bunch of mumbo jumbo I laughed through one of his religious stories so fair enough, frank exchange of opinions and all that.

But to say it to a bereaved person is lacking so much empathy, she may well believe it but didn’t have to say it. It’s basically saying your mums soul is lost but yours can still be saved, feels like trying to frighten you into religion. It doesn’t matter how well intentioned she thinks she is this was just brutal and unfeeling.

You mean @Rosiesmydog your 'ex friend.' She sounds vile. Sorry about your mum.

The thing is, Christianity does say this. No getting away from it. You either embrace the fundamentalist stuff or you don’t. This is why the Church of England is dying, not fundamental enough.
If God does exist, then he is a narcissistic, vindictive, attention seeker. That’s what the bible says anyway.

Do you see any sign at all that the world is ruled by a benevolent maker?

Your mother’s molecules will become stars one day, she will live on in you and your children. She is not in hell, she is nowhere and everywhere. Your “friend”is an atrocious human being who deserves the God she chooses to worship.

It is a loving move if you REALLY BELIEVE that you can encourage a friend to reflect on an event and lead them to the right way.

To be clear, that is not my belief, but I know many evangelical Christians who want to save people, and are entirely motivated by love/affection. For them the end justifies the means. From what the OP says, I would put the friend in this category.

You can disagree with their actions, but you may not understand their motivation if you have no faith.

No need for the pointless swearing, it’s possible to have a discussion without it. I know some very fundamentalist evangelical people - I’m not one of them - who wouldn’t dream of doing this.

And yet there are posters on this thread defending the friend. Who does not get a pass on being cruel because she happens to believe in a particular version of a religion.

Honestly i don't care what misguided motivation a person puts on it.

It's a twatty thing to do.

And, out of interest, how should the dead woman "reflect" in order to avoid already being in hell?

It is NOT loving. Even if it was true, OP's mum is already in hell. Nothing she or OP can do to change that. So even if you truely and honestly believed it was true, there is no benefit to anyone by saying it. There is no loving intention there.

I find the whole Christianty = love in this context ridiculous.

@Rosiesmydog I used to be a Christian. I can truly believe your friend's comment. When I changed religion a very prominent member of the Christian church I used to go to, said that when she passes my place of worship she wants to burn it to the ground. If there is a hell her and a few others from that place will be going. She might be dead now for all I know? Being 'Christian' doesn't make someone nice.

I've never understood why people think their personal religion applies to others. I'm a Jew and I don't expect non-Jews to live by our rules, nor do I think they're going to any sort of hell for not believing what I believe.

Good dor you. OPs friend clearly would dream of doing it.

Sorry about your Mum OP I’m sure she is happy and content in her lasting rest!

As for your “friend” the absolute heathen in me would respond, “oh that’s good! I won’t have to worry about how I’m going to heat the house up! Hell is lovely and toasty isn’t it?”

But in general her belief of religion seems to be very fire and brimstone! I would tell her thanks for the concern and ditch her. You don’t need to be surrounded by a judgemental dolt who seemed to miss the a
part of the bible where Jesus and God had hearts full of love for everyone! Maybe point that out to her too!!

The thing is that it is irrelevant what OP's friend thought. A good friend, a kind person, wouldn't have said that about her recently deceased mum.

It reminds me a little of something that happened around the time I told my mum. I have a good and old friend who is very "straight talking" by her own account. She "says it how it is" and is very proud of that. When my mum was dying of terminal cancer we were talking on the phone and I mentioned to her she had been admitted to a hospice to review her medication. Her response "She is not reviewing her medication, hospices are where people go to die". What she said was true, much more true than anything to do with the criteria for heaven and hell, but it was a truely shitty thing to say to me in that context. Same re OP's friend, regardles of what she personally believes.

She's also not a Christian!

I am a Christian, and if some people's view of who goes to hell is correct, then I hope I get a say, because hell will be much more interesting...

And actually, as a Christian I don't believe in hell. Although a night out with your friend might come close.

I would use this poster’s words in a reply back to her. Possibly starting with the 1st and 2nd paragraphs and then, depending on the response, the 3rd.

I would go to jail for gbh if a supposed good friend said that to me.

If by some miracle I managed to control myself and not punch her, the friendship would be over.

I'd tell her I neither need nor want such a nasty, cruel piece of shit in my life and that she will likely be going to hell herself as she is such a spiteful person and no, she does not get to repent, there will be no forgiveness on my side.

Horrible woman.

A friend of mine once casually mentoned that they believed I would be going to hell because of my lack of belief.

This friend is devoutly religious and this is what they genuinely believe. It must actually be quite a burden to be carrying that belief that a lot of people you know will end up in hell if they are not 'saved'.

To be honest, it did upset me a bit but I could see that it came from a place of genuine concern. Even though I didn't believe it myself, I could see how distressing that must be for them as well.

We had a difference of opinion and just agreed not to talk about heaven/ hell etc. It was fine and we carried on being friends.

I think she thought she was doing the right thing by getting you to save your soul by whatever means necessary.
I would chose not to be friends with her anymore, as she is putting her beliefs above being compassionate about your dear Mum's passing.
I once had an online argument with a fundamentalist Christian who told me that I'd being going to hell (I'm Jewish/agnostic) whilst Hitler would go to heaven if had accepted Jesus. It's pointless engaging with these people.