To think why have so many kids if you can’t afford their presents?

[yuletidey]

Before I start I just want to say I have absolutely nothing against large families, I also understand people will have times in their lives where they struggle.

I recently volunteered for a local to charity, they donate toys to children in need all around the country. I have volunteered for around 6 years around Christmas time to get toys packed. Yesterday I was helping pack boxes as they are really overwhelmed with the demand.

Recently I think the charity has changed their criteria as before anyone could get in touch and they would receive toys, I think the founder was a bit naive there but hey. Now people need to be referred by a school, social worker, support worker etc as a lot of people were taking advantage.

Anyway a woman turned up to the charity yesterday, asking for toys. The young girl working there said they will be giving them out all next week, she mentioned they had changed the criteria. The woman was saying she has ten kids and she was relying on them for toys, she was saying how can I get toys, she has kids from 16 to 1. They will now have to go without and no one bothered to tell her the criteria changed. The young girl apologised and said all updates were on their social media but they can’t update everyone individually. The woman lost her temper saying they have ruined her kids Christmas, it’s the girls fault, she’s ruined 10 kids Christmas.

This went on for a bit until I someone else stepped in but I was just shocked. I appreciate people need help and the pressure of Christmas can’t be nice but this woman has used the toys since they started, in that time she’s had a few children. I realise it’s a touchy subject but I felt so sorry for the young girl as she was really upset at letting children down

They can have intellectual stimulation that's completely age appropriate through play. Play can be very educational. Learning ABCs by wrote before they start school aged 4 does nothing to "open up neural pathways". 🤣

This is a standard benefits bashing thread and should probably have a warning attached. Anyway, I will bite- neighbour who is both an immigrant and mother of over 6 kids put up with this kind of ignorant bashing for years. Kids all now doctors/lawyers/degree educated while she worked three jobs. Elsewhere kids are seen as a blessing from God.

Yes, she had benefits for about ten years but her kids are a credit to society and she has spent 20+ years working more than full time.

You only use 10% of your brain for conscious thought because 90% is your subconscious. That doesn't mean you're not using it. Presumably you like having memories, emotions, breathing, your internal organs working, being able to move your limbs etc.

Ah, 'tis the season for mumsnet to remind us how many spiteful, callous, privilege-blind snobs post on it.

Not if your child has additional needs.

I know a lot of women with 4+ kids and all of them have at least 1 but usually multiple with various conditions.

I say that as someone with an amazing child with autism and ADHD, that is my world, but incredibly hard work, difficult to arrange childcare for and expensive in spite of the DLA so I stopped at one.

Im pretty sure some of these children don’t actually have a condition but it’s used as an excuse for poor parenting but hey-ho, can’t say that as it’s highly offensive.

I can see both sides of this as I never anticipated having to claim benefits in order to raise my child but me and DH can only work part time as we need to do a lot of stuff for our son. I also waited until I wasw 37 to have my first as I wanted to be married and own my own home.

Oh, absolutely this.

Perhaps babies and children are this woman's only real joy. And, not having the benefit of the good role models and good education and a good upbringing, having more babies is the way for her to stay happy when everything else is shit.

A lot of people just have no concept of what life can offer them, it's well beyond their comprehension, and babies and children can be an answer to that for a lot of women.

The myth that we only use 10% of the brain has been long debunked

www.newscientist.com/article/mg22029435-000-too-much-too-young-should-schooling-start-at-age-7/

This article is a good starting point. Plus the data from school systems around the world: those who focus on play until aged 6-7 consistently over many years have far better outcomes than ours academically and in terms of child wellbeing/ mental health.

And research since this article was published has only increased the evidence base for what it states.

Unfortunately some people seem to think it's their god-given right to have massive families and that everyone else should pick up the tab for it.

^
This.

Generally as wealth rises people choose to limit their family sizes. Large families are often linked to poverty.

But people here are saying they tur Ed out perfectly fine as adults. So what's the rush? I don't understand? The 3 and 4 year old will be fine!

Perhaps babies and children are this woman's only real joy. And, not having the benefit of the good role models and good education and a good upbringing, having more babies is the way for her to stay happy when everything else is shit

How is that fair on the 10 people she created to make herself feel better?

Quite a few years ago I volunteered in a food bank out the back of a church (very informal ran by lovely elderly ladies).

It was an experience. A couple of the ladies were quite judgmental; just because ‘mum’ has her nails done doesn’t mean she’s prioritising nails over feeding her kids as maybe her daughter is training to be a beautician?

I agree with PP that a lot of these regular service users are vulnerable/additional needs. Believes their boyfriend of 3 months loves kids but his previous 3 ex’s are all jealous bitches who won’t allow him to see the three he’s already got…

It’s incredibly sad for the kids. At least once a ‘shift’ I’d have kids aged 7-12 turning up on behalf of mum/having to lug bags home. Users were meant to have a referral from social/job centre but nobody was ever sent away empty handed.

BUT, I can believe OP here. Once we were donated huge bottles of mayo that were getting close to the sell by date with a couple of other cupboard extras. They we put on a table in the corner that everyone that day was offered to have a look while we were packing their bags. One lad, in his early twenties took all eight with shouting across the hall to ask for more carrier bags from us/GF to bring the buggy over. A volunteer suggested that he left some for the other users which he refused on the basis that he was told to help himself. She called him selfish and he shrugged. Volunteer couldn’t take her mind off it ‘we don’t even give ingredients for coleslaw so he’s cant make coleslaw…’ Obviously he was going to sell them to his neighbours for a couple of quid each. I can quite imagine members of our society pretending to have ten kids to get free toys to flog them onto FB.

But having nails done is expensive and food could be bought instead

I would be judgemental

Selective spending again

She would have got it for free though if her daughter was doing it.

Possibly 😀

More likely that she’d got her nails done as she knew she could get food for free than her daughter was training to be a nail technician tbh!

Wow, a lot Mumsnet really hates poor people. So many spiteful nasty assumptions. There but for the grace and all that.

Goodness me. What era have you crawled out from? The 1890’s?
kids in many other European countries don’t learn to read or start formal school until 7 and they are hardly nations of illiterate dunces so bang goes your ‘brains neural pathways are shutting down at 6 bullshit’
And as for your ‘_’ around special needs and your ignorance around that it’s just extremely offensive and actually shows you as completely ill informed, ignorant and devoid of any real experience with a wider range of children. No special needs children can’t just ‘catch up’ if they get pushed as toddlers and very small children ffs.

You have no idea what decisions they made or their circumstances.
Who knows, they may be a blended family where previous spouses died for all you know. Or maybe they are kinship carers. I have lots of children and get judged often. What people don't realise is that I'm a foster carer and have adopted some of the foster kids so they don't bounce around in care.

I was trying to frame a response that was kinder than the way I was trying to phrase it but I think this sums it up.
I know a family like this. The woman has 7 kids. She probably doesn't have the awareness to think ahead about the effects on herself or her existing children, let alone anyone else.

This. And it's often the case that the people most in need of help are the least able to accept it in a way that gratifies the givers.

Yeah! Agree. Ten kids isnt a large family

Thats enormous

Do they though?

It's more in this day and age when there is good contraception etc there is no reason to have multiple dc you can't afford and then be abusive to a charity who is doing their best to help

I think people should cut their cloth ....according to their means and 10 dc is a lot

Lower social classes are often a lot more opposed to abortion than more middle class people