To think why have so many kids if you can’t afford their presents?

[yuletidey]

Before I start I just want to say I have absolutely nothing against large families, I also understand people will have times in their lives where they struggle.

I recently volunteered for a local to charity, they donate toys to children in need all around the country. I have volunteered for around 6 years around Christmas time to get toys packed. Yesterday I was helping pack boxes as they are really overwhelmed with the demand.

Recently I think the charity has changed their criteria as before anyone could get in touch and they would receive toys, I think the founder was a bit naive there but hey. Now people need to be referred by a school, social worker, support worker etc as a lot of people were taking advantage.

Anyway a woman turned up to the charity yesterday, asking for toys. The young girl working there said they will be giving them out all next week, she mentioned they had changed the criteria. The woman was saying she has ten kids and she was relying on them for toys, she was saying how can I get toys, she has kids from 16 to 1. They will now have to go without and no one bothered to tell her the criteria changed. The young girl apologised and said all updates were on their social media but they can’t update everyone individually. The woman lost her temper saying they have ruined her kids Christmas, it’s the girls fault, she’s ruined 10 kids Christmas.

This went on for a bit until I someone else stepped in but I was just shocked. I appreciate people need help and the pressure of Christmas can’t be nice but this woman has used the toys since they started, in that time she’s had a few children. I realise it’s a touchy subject but I felt so sorry for the young girl as she was really upset at letting children down

Yes.
I can't stand hearing this kind of spiteful talk, judging people for the size of their families.

If anyone wants to have a moan, then what about all the families that are having to switch off their heating this month, even when so many kids are unwell? That's worthy of condemnation!

If you can afford it, please consider getting income insurance (for accident, disability or illness) and good life insurance (for death, obviously). The only situation you can't insure for is relationship breakdown.

@name78change how do you know that? How much do we earn for example for you to feel so confident of how much we take out? Who are you comparing us with to state your opinion so firmly? Please share your facts, I'd be more than willing to discuss these. No one has ever told me to cross my legs, because my children are all planned and budgeted for, I haven't got 10 and relying on charity to get them gifts

Please don't flame me...but I would probably think that a woman with ten kids she cannot afford is either vulnerable in some way or perhaps has learning difficulties or mental health problems.

So you never claimed child benefit and you're not going to claim your state pension?

So much ignorance on this thread

Do you use private healthcare and are all your dc in private school? Because if not, unless you're incredibly well off you are probably taking more from the system than you're putting in...even if you're not on benefits! As for the environmental impact....

Sometimes when working with a family, you want to bang your head against the wall with frustration at the inertia and lack of ability to help themselves to better a situation. But dig a little deeper and you realise that the parents of disadvantaged children rarely had charmed childhoods and quality educations themselves.

While of course childhood experiences impact how people are as adults hugely, it is not deterministic in this sense. There is always a choice, always. And it is insulting to people who had horrific childhoods but have become some of the best parents - for that very reason - to make excuses like this for terrible parenting. For many of us whose childhoods were appalling, having children of our own was not taken lightly, and we go above and beyond what most parents would do to ensure our children never suffer as we did. It's not an inevitability that people have to continue this cycle, it is a choice.

@littlehouselights don't get child benefit, tax credits or U/C , free childcare etc etc and as we're going to be 67 before we're entitled to state pension plus have private pensions so will pay tax even then, I find it unlikely that we'll get back the amount we pay a month in tax. Now who are you comparing us with? Unemployed get more benefits than us, current pensioners will as they retired at 60, free bus passes, prescriptions etc so I'm struggling to think of anyone so please educate me

@Tessabelle74 do your kids not go to state school and do you not all use the NHS then?

Unless you've been in the 40% bracket all your working life, with 4 children, your family is likely to have been a net taker in terms of contribution.

I'm a net contributor by the way - but I claim pip. Low rate mobility. Still a net contributor. But I've been a taker in the past. I must sit tonight and work out what I'm likely to be overall at this point.

Not RTFT as it seems to be getting a bit nasty, but the woman in question should not have been relying on charity for her children. There are charity shops, cheap shops like The Works, Home Bargains, people will be giving stuff away on freecycle etc, you really can't expect a magic wand every year, you have to take some responsibility yourself.
And yes, I have been SO broke at times.. so I'm not preaching!

I have 4 kids. Only 2 of them were by choice when I was in a marriage. By the time the 3rd accidental pregnancy happened my husband was violent and the cult I was born into wouldn't allow abortion. Zero choice. I love my 4 children but I now work very hard to provide for them. Not everyone has the option of easily choosing how many children that they have.

I can say with certainty I will always be able to afford the 4 of them. I’m not doing the same thing as the woman in the OP either; I’m not going to have 10 children and I don’t need charity for their gifts. Nor will I ever. I can say that with absolutely no doubt in my mind. Our businesses don’t require us to physically work daily to keep earning. Our rental properties aren’t mortgaged so even if we end up not getting rent for them (currently highly unlikely) ; we can sell them all for profit. Our childrens school fees are paid in advance. So no matter what may happen; divorce, illness or god forbid death, our children will be financially unaffected. We made absolutely sure of this before having 4.

Having 10 kids in this day and age is ridiculous. It should not even be allowed.

It could be not of your own making entirely.

As a two-doctor family, with 7 children, we were fine 10 years ago. Nobody would have predicted how things have changed - we even considered my wife leaving work to do voluntary work that didn't make her as miserable as being a GP does at the moment.

Since then our real-terms pay has declined by around 40% compared to the cost of living.

10 years ago we could afford to get them 50" TVs for Christmas, this year we couldn't afford a holiday, and have set a £100 limit on presents.

Most people having a large family of 5 or more dc are not expecting to foot the bill themselves. They could afford Christmas presents except you know there's fags, hair extensions, tattoos, phones and other shit to pay for. I bet the woman will have everything she needs. I feel really sorry for dc like these. We stopped at the number of DC we could afford.

We could afford two children. The second one was twins. It's a struggle particularly at the moment but I wouldn't be without any of them.
My point is that sometimes it's not a choice as such. I get that 3 is different to 10 though.

I have had said many times to me by members of the public met through work that this person was going to have numerous babies for extra benefits and a bigger house,very blatantly and not at all ashamed.Never mind the four toddlers in a double bed downstairs cuddling up to a litter of gorgeous puppies who had shat and pee'd in said bed one of the women showed me.
Happy days.
I just hope all children have the best possible Christmas but sadly we all know they will not.

Totally agree with you OP. Applies to everything relating to children including christmas gifts.

"Accidentally had another 9 kids" 🤣

Women with high flying 100k a year careers don't have 10 kids.

Baroness Morrissey has 9. She is an astonishing woman. With a house husband though!

It's totally fine to have a large family, if you can be fairly sure you can meet the needs of all of those children properly and give them a happy childhood where they have opportunities and feel supported.

I came here to say this. Making "sensible conscious lifestyle choices" is more of a privilege than a lot of people think. When I started working with severely disadvantaged people, I realised how much of the "common sense choices" I made about my life would have been difficult or impossible without the benefit of my education, community and background.

The narrative of "poor people always choose to be poor because they feel entitled and make a conscious decision to be sponges" is dangerous and we should be very concerned about who's pushing this rhetoric and why.

It may seem like that colleague of an friend of a friend who "takes the piss from charities" is being malicious, but consider that their upbringing (or lack of one) may have left them with literally no framework for understanding an alternative the way you or I might.

I know there will always be bad actors in this world, but it's not always so clear cut.

This with bells on.

Instead of condemning people who make these choices, plunging themselves and their offspring into extreme poverty, I think it would be more productive to find strategies to prevent this happening in the first place.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this problem if you have any.

Over 9 pages posters have explained some of the complex reasons behind this; socioeconomic background, lack of opportunities, childhood neglect, learning difficulties, complicated mental health issues, addiction, abuse, past trauma or a cycle of generational poverty, lack of education to name a few.

a
All of these should be a reason not to have that many, if any kids.
How are these now used as an excuse?