To think controlled crying is cruel

[KazMa]

DH would like to try controlled crying/sleep training but I am totally against any sort of crying/leaving DS on his own upset. Any advice?

Here is current scenario:

DS just turned 7 months old and we have been co sleeping since the dreaded 4 month sleep regression, he also breastfeeds to sleep - will go to sleep without it but needs a lot of patting, rocking and walking around so it’s easier just to BF.

For a month now I am able to BF to sleep and then leave him in his cot in his own room for nap times and he will sleep 45mins to an hour per nap (3x per day).

At night however he will wake up and only go back to sleep if he is laying & feeding next to me in my bed. (Eg, bedtime at 8pm but he’ll wake at 8:45 and won’t go back to sleep.

We sleep trained first. DS1 was awake still every fucking 20 minutes for about 3 months. He's lucky I didn't chuck him out of the window and instead was so exhausted I just literally couldn't get up. Like a miracle he fell back asleep after 20 mins, the next night after about 10 then about 3 the third night. I went from being unable to properly function, and being a short tempered, unresponsive mother to being able to play and sing. It was far more damaging for him to have 2 strung out parents than a few nights of tears.
The idea that they become emotionally retentive after that is absolutely ridiculous. All 3 of mine are very good at expressing emotions and are lovely teens now.
I remember some of my poor friends who were against control crying being almost broken with exhaustion after even 4 years of being woken up.

Op, don't do it.
Whether it's cruel or whether it's not, you don't want to and that's enough to say don't.

I personally think it's abandonment, though accept others will disagree. I think a baby does learn to stop crying but that's because it's needs aren't met, so no point. Do they survive? Of course. Children are resilient. Will they grow up to be happy, healthy humans? Possibly. It all depends on how they're parented the rest of the time. To my mind, it depends on how much it's compensated for by forming attachments elsewhere.

I tried to do what pleases my DH and regretted it massively. If I could have my time again I'd co-sleep and be there for them.

I think a baby self soothing is nonsense. Even adults don't self soothe. How many of us see even a stranger sobbing and don't offer a comforting hug? We reach out to the cry of another. When an adult is upset they seek comfort from those around them rather than carry it alone. No man is an island, remember? Except for children, that is. Especially tiny little baby ones at night time. Naaa. Seriously.

Maybe they had a calmer, less sleep deprived mother. And were happier themselves, having had a decent block of sleep. And we all need some stress in our lives, it's not a fairytale. This idea that you keep a baby happy 24/7 is unrealistic and you'll tie yourself in knots trying to do so.

Please don’t do it.

Ah, the old “crying because their needs weren’t met” argument.

Yesterday my toddler cried for a long time because I wouldn’t let her pull the Christmas tree down. Does that count as not meeting her needs? What about if she wanted to run in to the road, or open the oven door, or pull the dogs tail, or attempt the stairs on her own? She’d cry at all those things, would I be a horrendous mummy not to let her do those?

Hmmmm not teaching a baby to sleep is also pretty cruel. My dd was chronically overtired. There are no easy answers to baby sleep. My dd is 12 now and all good.

Teaching babies to self soothe is a good thing. Co sleeping and feeding to sleep is teaching your baby to sleep only when you are next to them.

@RedHelenB Yes but purposefully leaving an upset child is beyond “not being able to make a child happy 24/7” - it’s not a toddler having a tantrum about not being able to pull the Christmas tree down. Its a baby saying “I’m scared, where’s my mum”. Forcing young kids/babies to be independent is warped 🤷🏻‍♀️

The ability to self soothe is impossible at such a young age.

Friend of mine did it and it worked a treat. Son now grown up and doing great. Friend was only young mum I have ever known who was not sleep deprived and neither was her son.

Health visitor recommended we try it with DD so did 3 nights controlled crying at about 8 months and she started sleeping through. Had a couple of spells waking up in the night at ages 2 and 3 - I always went to her, couldn’t ignore. I’m not sure whether I would do the crying thing if I had another, as I know so much more about the development of babies’ brains than I did back in 2010.

DD is a fantastic sleeper now and an happy, secure kid (so far!) Always been a super early riser, didn’t sleep past 5.30am until she was about 7. Now almost 13 and still up at the crack of dawn everyday. I think they’re just individuals and come to their own natural rhythm no matter how we intervene or don’t intervene.

Every word of this.

Babies need sleep. If you can help them learn to sleep, why wouldn’t you? Not cruel at all, imo.

Ah, the old “crying because their needs weren’t met” argument.

Yesterday my toddler cried for a long time because I wouldn’t let her pull the Christmas tree down. Does that count as not meeting her needs? What about if she wanted to run in to the road, or open the oven door, or pull the dogs tail, or attempt the stairs on her own? She’d cry at all those things, would I be a horrendous mummy not to let her do those?

Do you actually not know the difference or are you just saying this to try and argue a point I disagree with?

If it's the former, then no. It's not 'crying because their needs weren't met' argument. By the way, I think you meant NOT crying rather than crying?

But in the case of your DD and the xmas tree. It's completely different and I think you know it. Do you ask if not allowing her to pull the tree down on her is not meeting her needs, or her crying for so long is not meeting her needs? A child exploring and tantruming over getting their will crossed is not a need for comfort. Though I would suggest her crying for a long time could have been avoided with the right understanding and appropriate distraction. All of the other things you mention are a danger to your DD but comforting a child at night is not a danger any more than comforting an adult in distress. Don't you need comfort from another adult when you are emotionally upset?

This. And it's well known the extremely damaging effects of poor sleep on a developing brain. Teaching a baby to sleep well goes along with teaching them to eat solids and other essential life skills. Its cruel not to just because the parents don't want to bother. That said, there are a multitude of ways to help baby to sleep well and different techniques will work well with different babies. OP has to do what she thinks best for her baby (it's just a shame she used an inflammatory title which brings out the emotionally manipulative evangelicals).

i would suggest her crying for a long time could have been avoided with the right understanding and appropriate distraction 🤣hilarious

My point is that as parents we have to equip our children with various skills and encourage them to learn stuff / teach them things. Encouraging a child to sleep without sucking on a boob is a good skill to have. Babies need sleep. Toddlers need to know not to run in to the road.

This. I have 2 under 2. I've never done controlled crying deliberately but there have been times when one needs me more and the other one just has to wait a few minutes. Sometimes he's still crying when I get to him and sometimes he settles himself before I get there.

@KazMa if you are looking for practical advice and not to start a debate (sadly your title has veered the conversation to the latter) then HeySleepyBaby has a 75 minute partner workshop designed to help support couples who disagree about how to approach their baby's sleep.

I haven't used it myself because my partner and I are happy (and believe it's the right thing to do) to help support our baby to sleep until he's developmentally ready. I do however follow HSB on Instagram as I find her posts on normal baby sleep very reassuring.

heysleepybaby.com/partner-workshop

Some of these replies are wild. If your baby thought 'there's no point crying, no one is coming' they wouldn't cry in the daytime either for things.
I did CC with my child and he sleeps 12-13 hours a night and 2 hours in the day. He's 16 months. When I say it's bed time he walks over to the stairs and is smiling when I put him down for the night.
I completely understand it's not for everyone but months and months of interrupted sleep can't be good for anyone. Two nights helping them to self settle (not self soothe, that's different) was worth it for me.

I have two children and have tried both ways. With my oldest I was very against any kind of sleep training that involved crying so I just did whatever it took to get her to sleep, whether that was rocking her back and forth in the pram for an hour (not exaggerating, literally an hour to get her to nap), co-sleeping, sitting by her bed for however long it took. She still cried, because she was tired and couldn't fall asleep, and I cried because I was exhausted and at my wits end. It took years for her to learn to sleep without some kind of help (eventually that helps was audio books rather than me, and melatonin) and she was chronically sleep deprived, as was I, so much so that it affected her behaviour enough to need outside help. In retrospect I think that was more cruel than doing sleep training (I did try pick up/put down around 6 or 7 months but it didn't work because she would cry immediately so I had to pick her up immediately)

With my youngest I decided I wouldn't put us both through that again. He was a better sleeper to begin with though, but when he went through regressions it got bad and at 10 months I did controlled crying (after first trying the method suggested by the child nurse, where you shh and pat them but don't pick them up but frankly that just pissed him off) and I feel that it was the better choice, he never had to suffer sleep deprivation like his big sister did, and was a much happier baby and toddler.

You'd actually be doing your child a favour in the long term, as they learn to self settle. I felt the same, so I do understand how you feel and the first few days of sleep training were horrible - but what a game changer!

I agree it's cruel. My DD was exactly the same as yours with co-sleeping and breastfeeding and needing a feed back to sleep. She eventually started self settling occasionally with just a cuddle in the night and then I stopped breastfeeding at 19 months and she went from hourly wake ups to once a night

If you approach parenting with a view that crying is never ok you might come acropper in later years with behaviour.

Children (and even babies from about 6 months) do have wants as well as needs. Sometimes crying is because they aren't getting what they want. As a parent your job is to meet their needs but you don't have to give in to every want.

I think there is very different ideas of what is understood by controlled crying - that name is awful. I have heard everything from putting the baby alone in a room (over six months) to having a parent in the room patting their back, singing, talking, reassuring but not necessarily picking them up in your arms.

The second method I would have used when they were over tired - I didn't leave a child uncomforted but I also didnt reinforce the idea that my arms was the only place to sleep.

Honestly you do what works for your individual child. Sleep is very, very important for babies and you got to do what it takes for them to get good quality sleep. We did sleep train second because he wasn’t getting good naps or sleep at night. He was overtired and once he managed to put two sleep cycles together he was a much happier baby. He never got left for 10/20 minutes crying and now if he wakes up at night hungry, sick, dirty nappy etc he will cry and we go into him. He hasn’t been taught his needs won’t be met.
Eldest just randomly at 7 months started sleeping through the night.
Eldest co slept and second prefers cot. Each baby is an individual and needs to be treated as such.