To think controlled crying is cruel

[KazMa]

DH would like to try controlled crying/sleep training but I am totally against any sort of crying/leaving DS on his own upset. Any advice?

Here is current scenario:

DS just turned 7 months old and we have been co sleeping since the dreaded 4 month sleep regression, he also breastfeeds to sleep - will go to sleep without it but needs a lot of patting, rocking and walking around so it’s easier just to BF.

For a month now I am able to BF to sleep and then leave him in his cot in his own room for nap times and he will sleep 45mins to an hour per nap (3x per day).

At night however he will wake up and only go back to sleep if he is laying & feeding next to me in my bed. (Eg, bedtime at 8pm but he’ll wake at 8:45 and won’t go back to sleep.

I think it is incredibly naive when people are so against any form of sleep training as their babies are angels and the thought of doing anything like it makes them feel Ill. You seriously have no idea.

My first was absolute hell. We have zero family help. And she had to be rocked for HOURS to get her to sleep. That’s for night time and at least an hour for every single nap. Having to put her down then pick her straight back up again 30, 40 times every single time. Your back is literally broken, the pain is unbearable. Then they sleep for only 30 minutes and wake up again screaming as they’re so tired. Unbearable to be around in the day. They are pretty much constantly unhappy and whiny as they’re just so exhausted but cannot sleep. I used to break down and cry so, so so many times. I was so incredibly low. I was physically in agony and mentally in a complete hole.

We had to give in eventually at around 9 months and did a bit of Ferber, with increasing intervals. We also tried pick up put down but that just aggravated her even more.

It only took a few days but my god, I could not believe the difference. An entirely different child. She could sleep. We could sleep. My back was finally not in excruciating pain. She was actually happy, and could actually focus on developing in the day on her skills rather than just constantly being unhappy.

When I had my second, I knew I would never let it go on that long again and would sleep train earlier. I couldn’t survive going through that again.

But…. this child is a dream. He just… sleeps. By himself. I mean, obviously there are many times he won’t and I need to rock him, cuddle him, feed him. He wakes up 2 to 3 times a night for reassurance or breastfeeding. He’s 6 months now.

There is zero need to sleep train this child. This is entirely normal. And I just can’t believe how different he is from my first.

When I see on mumsnet how many are so violently against sleep training and nasty about it - you really have NO idea what some parents have to go through to come to that decision. You should thank your lucky stars that you have an easy baby.

I didn't do controlled crying but I don't think it's cruel. Babies cry for a reason and one of the reasons is because they are exhausted and can't self settle. If a baby can fall asleep on their own then that's an amazing thing. Think of all the hours babies cry because they are too tired but can't settle, surely that's crueller than a few days of crying it out?

I don't do controlled crying but I wish I had.

I slept train my DC who is also turning 7 months this week - I did this at 5.5 months and they are now sleeping from 7pm-5am.

Also had to wean off night feeds through various techniques such as increasing day feeds. They have been sleeping in their own room since 3 months.

This has worked well for us. Personally I've found my child to be more settled having longer uninterrupted sleeps, and it also made it easier for myself and DP.

I certainly wouldn't adopt your arrangement but if it makes you happy, then each to their own.

If a baby wakes up every hour throughout the night, for several months non-stop and is fed, nappy changed, and has paracetamol, but shows no signs of learning to combine the sleep cycles, and the baby is then sleep trained by Ferber method (going in and out of room) and after one hour of training sleeps through the whole first night, and in the subsequent nights wakes up max twice or three times, but often sleeps through or wakes up just once, then isn’t it you, who in fact ‘lets the baby cry’ if we count the minutes/numerous wakes every night for god knows how many months going forward?

If you aren't comfortable with it OP you won't be able to go through with it.

We tried it with my DD at around 10 months and I honestly wish I never bothered. It was so heartbreaking hearing her cry. She didn't settle at all, in the end we carried on cosleeping.

She's nearly 2 now and sleeps independently throughout the night.

I have never regretted supporting my child to sleep (even those endless walks up and down the room) but I will always regret leaving her to cry.

Took me 3 nights of controlled crying on each of my children and jackpot.

This!!!! ❤️

Some babies cry more than others. I was so lucky all of mine breastfed, clean nappy, put down to sleep. Baby slept. My best friend had her baby day before me in same hospital. Her baby was always crying. In day and night. I saw her feed him, change his nappy, put him down to sleep but he kept screaming. I tried soothing him to give friend a break. Nothing stopped him crying. HV checked him over but nothing wrong could be found. This went on for best part of 18 months. Then gradually eased. Friend tried everything included controlled crying. He only stopped in his own time.

And jackpot what? You taught your kids in 3 days that you won’t come if they’re upset. Therefore, you didn’t teach them how to self-soothe (something developmentally impossible for babies and young children) but you did in fact teach them there’s no point in crying - nobody is coming. You raised their cortisol levels for 3 days, for what?? An easier life for you? God forbid babies need assistance/reassurance during the night… they’re babies. Imposing this adult norm upon your children imposed unnecessary levels of stress and subconsciously taught them that you won’t respond to their cries for help. Yeah, Jackpot! 🤝🏻😂

I knew nothing about controlled crying but at 7 months she was waking up,not hungry wanting me to play.
We decided one night to let her cry.I cried(quietly) being held. by her dad,she cried.
We all fell asleep and she woke happy and hungry at 5am.We never looked back.
For us it was just breaking the cycle,having said that 5am stayed her favourite waking time regardless of bedtime until she was about 7!I never had a problem getting her up for anything until she became a teenager!

So you and your baby cried to sleep.

But your partner comforted you, yet you left your baby to cry alone?

I didn't have an easy baby. Quite the reverse for reference.

I totally understand the feelings of utter exhaustion that come from dealing with a baby that would sleep for 2 hours max in any one "shift".

I spent nights sobbing.

That still doesn't mean I think this method is right.

Rather as I posted above, I think it's about reflection on what you are doing/not doing and taking positive action.

In my case BF to sleep was the problem and DS needed to be weened off that.

He needed to learn how to self soothe and that involved a period of adjustment with DH putting him to bed and not leaving him to cry.

I appreciate having multiple babies as pp's have noted might mean you physically can't respond "right now" to a baby crying, but that is very different to choosing not to do so.

Personally I don't think deliberately deciding not to respond is the answer, rather it's about adjusting your response by considering why your baby is crying (in my case and I'd suggest the OP's it's because they like/have got used to being BF to sleep).

Not true that they think you won’t respond- no ones saying to ignore them and let them bawl when they’re hungry or hurt or generally upset - a baby can be put in a cot and fall asleep without it being a massive trauma.
They cry because they’re used to being with you before sleep, and you’ve changed it, not because anything is actually wrong. That’s the difference.
what you’re describing is like if they fell over and you let them cry and didn’t go to them - they’re 2 entirely separate scenarios.
a baby can fall asleep without intervention when they’re in their cot and they’re fed and tired - it’s totally natural

I don't like controlled crying and I can't do it with my own children. I tried it with my eldest and she ended up hysterical so I haven't tried it again.
Your baby is still small and needs you. He/she may not be ready to settle alone yet and this time in their life is so short. I would just enjoy getting them to sleep the way you feel comfortable doing so.

Controlled crying is not cruel. At all. The baby is comforted. You are just teaching baby to self-soothe by not running to it immediately.

I also had a baby that would not settle. And was sleep deprived and fractious in the day. 4 days of controlled crying and he learnt to soothe himself to sleep, and we were all much happier and healthier.

A baby that isn't sleeping well, is waking constantly crying and not able to self-soothe to sleep or who takes hours to soothe or rock to sleep is not a baby who will be developing properly as good sleep is so vital to their development.

So anyone that says controlled crying is just for the parents is talking twaddle.

I agree that controlled crying is a bit “cruel” in the sense that the baby is being taught how to do something (fall asleep independently) that he or she doesn’t want to learn. Learning new skills is often difficult. By doing controlled crying, you’re choosing to put your baby through something difficult (usually for 3 days at most).

But not doing controlled crying - AND having a child that wakes up many times night after night and doesn’t nap well - is ALSO cruel in two senses. 1) The baby is chronically sleep deprived, and we know sleep is so important developmentally. 2) The parent is chronically sleep deprived, and we know that leads to postpartum depression/anxiety, which is not good for the baby. In fact, it’s very dangerous.

On balance, I felt the cruelness of sleep deprivation for the entire household was less than the cruelness of sleep training when I reluctantly embarked on controlled crying. It was dramatically faster and easier than I had imagined, and it was a great decision for my family. Obviously everyone is different, though!

I tried it one evening with my first and decided it wasn’t for me. I went on to have four more children and despite having the normal number of arms managed not to use controlled crying😂. People who do it find it works for them, people who don’t, don’t. It’s no crueller than any other parenting choice. Pros, child learns crying is not the way to get your presence, Cons child learns crying is not the way to get your presence.

I did it, I was desperate and I feel immense guilt over it. Would never, ever do it again. It's cruel and horrible.

To be honest this is the kind of response I expect from the anti-sleep training brigade. Emotionally immature, full of copy n paste phrases, nasty, and mistaking sentimentality for genuine emotional insight. The cry laughing emoji makes this almost a parody. It is never about the baby but about the parents trying to feel superior. If I was feeling ungenerous I might feel a bit sorry for any little one being raised by these unpleasant judgemental people.

OP - don't do it if it doesn't feel right for you and your baby and your situation. But it isn't cruel. It's just another technique amongst many a parent can try. The idea that amongst the billions of tiny humans born every year there is only one 'right' way to do things is bizarre. Different babies require different approaches. What's important is that you do your best to support your baby to sleep well for their own optimum physical and mental development. Controlled crying wasn't right for me but it worked beautifully and very quickly for two in my NCT group who had babies who couldn't link sleep cycles at all. Both babies and mums much happier and thriving months later. Good luck x

I can't understand all the angst over controlled crying/sleep training. My son would have cried less in the 2 nights of sleep training than in the months of disturbed sleep nights when he woke constantly and cried till I got to him, and when trying to settle him.

Then after a couple of nights of controlled crying he started sleeping through without any crying (apart from when he was sick) and was a much, much happier baby during the day because he wasn't sleep derived.
Frankly, I felt cruel for not doing it sooner.

@FurElsie all fine and dandy now. Wait till your in the last stages of life in a care home. Sleep training or child abuse? No wonder so many kids secretly self harm when they're older because from a young age they know their parents don't care.

Children self harm because their parents sleep trained them? Where's the evidence for that??!

No need to judge each other - we're all doing the best we can given our circumstances. I have a baby bjorn travel cot beside my bed for baby. Baby sleeps there initially and if DC wakes and isn't easily soothed to fall back asleep there after I go to bed then DC sleeps with me. For a while DC slept all night alone, lately it's 3-4 hours. I figure it will be hills and valleys and I'm fine with it. If I'm still awake and DC wakes I currently wait 5-10 mins before going in and when I do I sometimes pickup, sometimes just console depending on how bad the crying is. Do what suits. There isn't a correct way.

So her children who are now in their 30s , who she has a great relationship are now at risk of self harming and will abandon her in in her old age because of a few nights of controlled crying. And those nights will outweigh all the years of support and love she has given them.

Work on teaching your baby to go to sleep themselves and over few months drop the night feeds and sleep should improve. Baby is still quite young so I wouldn't rush to stop feeding. But no teaching a baby that if they cry nobody helps them is not a great method.