To think the encouragement to delay real life is a big cause in the explosion of mental health issues in under 35's ?

[rudolphrainbownose]

Okay, so there is a well documented mental health crisis amongst young people , particularly university students, needing mental health support.

Is it just me or is the current culture of delaying "real adulthood" ( staying at school longer, young marriage/ pregnancy actively discouraged and frowned upon, uni unofficially taking the school leaving age to 23 for middle class young people, staying living at their parents well into their late 20's/ early 30's....)

To me it seems discouraging starting real adult life is fuelling this.

1. Young women are told not to expect "security" in relationships, they are almost told to expect being ghosted by a series of men "not wanting to put a label on it," and going on a series of disastrous online dates is better than settling down young. Look how much marriage amongst under 25's is frowned upon on Mumsnet.

But I don't see many aspects of the dating scene today, ("friends with benefits" being cool, sex often expected without commitment before or afterwards on the first couple of dates, having to actually spell out you don't want the guy you are dating online to continue dating others online, being ghosted and blocked for no reason, being particularly healthy for the mental health of young people). Yet this is sold to them as more empowering than settling down into a steady relationship at a relatively young age....

2. I'll expect to be flamed for this, but the active discouragement of having children in your 20's , probably robs a lot of women of a focus, ( because having your own family is often a nice focus), than drifting around without a purpose gives them. This also leads to probably more people experiencing the panic of miscarriage and infertility , ( risks increasing with age), into their 30's.

3. Active encouragement into University without thinking often leads to a horrendously mentally unhealthy lifestyle.

For those with a passion for the subject, or doing a vocational course that leads to a career, of course university should be supported.

But that is not the case for your average student. Your average student goes to uni because, broadly speaking, it's what their college or sixth form expects of anyone vaguely academic. They pick a subject with no fixed career that they are at best, vaguely interested in, ( managed to scrape a B in business studies A Level, hated it the least, so I'll do it at uni to delay working for three years).

They head to uni to study a subject they are not particularly interested in, ith no idea what it will lead to afterwards. Most, have at most, six hours a week contact time, ( often less post covid). They sleep in late, browse the internet and get smashed a few times a week, ( the majority of students I know do not work in term time). Rinse and repeat. And they wonder why living this not very appealing lifestyle leaves students at poor risk of mental health ? And many are encouraged to take on a masters in a subject they are not interested in, with no direct career, to delay entering the real world for another year. They live in a bubble with people of the same age and inexperience as them. Compare that to a 19 year old office juniour being up and about, learning about the world of work, going for after work drinks with colleagues of a variety of ages ?

And the housing crisis means they are still likely to be living at home, ( especially if they are single), until 30. Often treated like overgrown teenagers, still in the habit of explaining to their parents where they are going of an evening. My friend , ( male), was explaining to me that at 28 he was working himself up to staying the night at his new girlfriends as he was so embarrassed to explain where he was to his parents, ( because if he told them he wouldn't be home for dinner as he was staying at his girlfriend's , they'd realise he was having sex).

In short, is delaying marriage, babies, work , moving out and leaving education actually causing everyone to be directionless and unhappy ?

I agree with the sentiment of your thread, that young people not really being out in the real world (because uni and masters,) until potentially 23-24 years old, and then being coddled by parents (who let them live at home as long as they want,) can lead to an inability to grow up properly, and end up with the immature mindset of a 17-18 year old... (at 23-25.)

I do disagree however that women need to get married and have a child at 22-23 to be fulfilled and 'mature.' Indeed, many women I know in their 30s and 40s who started having children at 18-20, are the most petty immature women I know, and are still living with a teenage school girl mentality. Not ALL but some.

It's really hard to know which is the best path to take in life and none of us ever get it perfectly right. But I do feel that young people being able to stay in education til they're in their mid 20s does make them emotionally stunted and immature. Again not always but often. I also agree with another poster that the push for 50% to go to uni is stupid. I know MANY young people £50K in debt (who went to uni,) who are in their mid to late 20s now, and working alongside people who failed their GCSEs - in the same job on the same pay!!!

I also know a few young 20-somethings who (like you said,) have only ever mixed with their peers with the same ludicrous 'woke' views.' And they act like they're the all knowing oracle, call anyone over 40 'boomers' and think they're better than other people because they have half a dozen friends who were not born in this country, and they have travelled to a few countries, and that they act like they know fucking everything.

They bark and scream at you if you say the 'wrong' thing, and use the 'wrong' terminology, and think everyone over 50 is a thick bigoted racist. It must be soooo hard to be so perfect and to never say the 'wrong' thing. Hilariously, I regularly hear them slip up (when they think I am out of earshot,) and say things they don't say in front of their friends/on twitter and instagram/on facebook. It's all a front!

Oh and social media is not to blame! Women were sold this bullshit lie of being able to 'have it all' some 30 years ago. It's a crock of shit and always was. When I tried to 'have it all...' the career, the climbing the corporate ladder, gaining more education and training, and ALSO trying to be a mother to 2 young children, care for elderly parents, and look after house and home, I nearly had a fucking nervous breakdown. No, women can NOT have it all!!!

Other than the housing crisis the rest of the factors you describe aren’t any different from the 90s / 00s, other than (especially in the 90s) we partied harder.

So no, don’t think it’s to do with extended freedom, but I think parents of current teens and 20s are a lot more anxious than ours ever were, I think that filters down a lot.

It’s depressing to see so many agreeing with the op like it’s in any way insightful. Not that there aren’t some nuggets of truth in there, but overall it’s drawing sweeping conclusions with no evidence. Comes across very ‘well, I reckon.’ And the first few responses promote the sort of crackpot (everyone should be forced to work for a few years at 18!) or philistine (non-stem uni courses all devalued) ideas that always come up around this subject.

No, I don’t think university and not having kids / entering the workplace ASAP is causing mental health issues. I certainly don’t think forcing me to take a break from academic study at 18 would have achieved anything but delay even longer me establishing a career. As opposed to working for working’s sake. Even if we accept a rise in mental health problems - and we can’t take this as read as they weren’t as easily recognised in the past - I agree with other posters who say social media and the economy are far more significant contributors.

As for parents babying teenagers and young adults for longer than in the past, seems to me this is often done in compensation for other aspects of life that are far more difficult for young people now. That’s very understandable.

You're assuming "life" is about getting married, having babies and buying a house. I know lots of people who prioritised those things - most are either divorced or unhappily married. I'm mid-30s and neither married nor have children (bought a house a month ago) and I'm genuinely outraged that you think I have no "life".

MH problems in people under 35 are (IMO) due to negative impacts of the internet. Social media, constant bad news, poorer real life relationships (friendships and family), poorer romantic relationships (partly due to porn and promotion of promiscuity).

Plus a decade of shitty economic environment. Poorer than their parents and likely to be until forever or their parents die and leave inheritance, decreasing standard of living, insecurity of housing, fear of nursery & mortgage/rent costs making starting a family very unstable for those who want one.

also know a few young 20-somethings who (like you said,) have only ever mixed with their peers with the same ludicrous 'woke' views.' And they act like they're the all knowing oracle, call anyone over 40 'boomers' and think they're better than other people because they have half a dozen friends who were not born in this country, and they have travelled to a few countries, and that they act like they know fucking everything.

Every older generation thinks this about every generation:

“They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it.”
Rhetoric, Aristotle, 4th Century BC

“It’s an irony, but so many of us are a cautious, nervous, conservative crew that some of the elders who five years ago feared that we might come trooping home full of foreign radical ideas are now afraid that the opposite might be too true, and that we could be lacking some of the old American gambling spirit and enterprise.”
The Care and Handling of a Heritage: One of the “scared-rabbit” generation reassures wild-eyed elders about future, Life, 1950

“Parents themselves were often the cause of many difficulties. They frequently failed in their obvious duty to teach self-control and discipline to their own children.”
Problems of Young People, Leeds Mercury, 1938

“A few [35-year-old friends] just now are leaving their parents’ nest. Many friends are getting married or having a baby for the first time. They aren’t switching occupations, because they have finally landed a ‘meaningful’ career – perhaps after a decade of hopscotching jobs in search of an identity. They’re doing the kinds of things our society used to expect from 25-year-olds.”
Not Ready for Middle Age at 35, Wall Street Journal, 1984

“‘We want to get married, but there is nowhere we can set up a house of our own. It is either a case of waiting goodness knows how long, and we've waited all the war, or, going to live with Mary's mother.’ How often is a similar remark heard in those days, for it is the problem that young people all over the country have to face. Thousands of young fellows have come home from the war intent on setting up a home with the girl of their heart only to find that there are no homes to be had… Many men, of course, have not waited for houses, but have got married and gone into rooms or to live with relatives, but neither course can be considered very satisfactory.”
Nowhere to Set Up House, Dundee Courier, 1920

Yeah agree with most of this and to add to that a lot of those young marriages/relationships in the town I grew up in started breaking down in their late 20s/early 30s.

I do feel OLD and the FWB aspect is a problem though. There does seem to be low expectations for men nowadays. I don’t necessarily think marriages for under 25 are the answer though for most . There needs to be be a balance.

I’ve never read so much bullshit in my life.

You sound exactly like that dickhead Kirsty Allsopp who was quoted that in order to buy a house all you need to do it give up Netflix and coffee.

Im 29. In a public sector full time job just above minimum wage. I’m studying 1 day a week as part of an apprenticeship programme in order to gain a business admin qualification so I am able to move up the pay bandings to secure a better paying role.

I have £8k saved up in a help to buy ISA. which I put into every month.

I have bills to pay. A car to run. Minimum disposable income and I am no where near close to securing my own property.

I’m single. Been in a previous emotionally abusive relationship. So don’t even dare with the “don’t date fuck boys comment”.

You are seriously tone def.

I do think the mental health crisis is actually all ages though.its just adults aren't a priority. Aren't cared for as much.i see it all the time.funding for children services,research for young people mental health. So manyvadults being left to suffer and never ever any funding or researching for them therefore no headlines or "crisis" mentioned when there very much is.and adults screaming out for help.

I was moved up two years in high school.

went to uni at 16.

whilst I don’t recommend that as it’s given me other issues.

at just over 18 I got on a plane at Manchester and flew to the Midwest to go to uni for two years on an exchange.

no mobile phones or internet (was 1993) my parent just knew my address. I think I called Them from a pay phone once a month for two years.

before I went to uni I visited several open days - on my own from Liverpool to Norwich for the UEA open day. The only contact my parents had was when I phoned them from London to tell them not to meet the direct train as I’d gone via London as it was quicker.

I am gobsmacked at the lack of independence 16 year olds are given these days. I might have been an outlier but a income from a very dodgy area of Liverpool and a lot of my mates were working and/or renting flats with boyfriends by 18

Not necessarily, in my youth in the 80's (crikey I'm old) there was a massive shift for women who were convinced they could have it all career and family. No social media then. I feel that it's now been so normalized in society that young people feel they have no choice but to go the school/uni/career route otherwise they will feel devalued

I agree with half of what you said.

For context I'm 30.

• started a relationship with my partner at 18
• bought our first flat at 20/21
• moved again at 25
• first child at 26
• married 29
• now pregnant with second child

I do feel as though I am a world away from most people of a similar age to me, some of my friends have just started to buy/ rent there own places. It's a very different life we have been living like adults for 10 years where as most of them are literally just starting.

I also am not very influenced by social media I do not feel the need to buy certain items or get lip fillers/ lashes/ nails, where as a lot of people of a similar age do seem to get caught up in it some of my friends included. I do remember as a teen I Had massive anxiety over missing out though. I would stay on MSN all night chatting incase I get I missed something.

Although I would say my husband is a nice guy I couldn't have done any of this on my own, and have also seen friends in relationships with men who are idiots and I couldn't think of anything worse then spending my life with them.

A lot of people could also say we didn't see enough of the world, which is also true (I live about 20 miles from where I grew up) but I am happy and don't regret having my first at 26 even though I was very much the youngest at NCT/ baby groups.

To be honest I feel the biggest help to my mental health has been my stable relationship/ a real partner to solve issues with. not the so much having children I certainly would've waited rather then have them with an idiot.

There is a difference I’d say, the ones in my hometown who settled down by 21 are the ones who seem to have more stress & misery but the ones I know from uni who met around 18-23 but didn’t marry until late 20s or early 30s and seem happy.

I think it’s because although both groups met their OH around the same age, the ones from uni didn’t just focus solely on making babies lol they went out and pursued degrees and embarked on careers they were passionate about and in some cases spent months or even years abroad ( away from their partners!), lived in a big city etc before marriage and then had kids slightly later which is different from my hometown friends who often went from school, local job to having kids and ‘settling’ very quickly with not much in between.

I am single in my 30s and tbh I’d have loved to have met the man of my dreams in my 20s, that said I agree with PP in saying my life is definitely not purposeless or needing the focus of a family!

@Thanks4allthefish I am gobsmacked at the lack of independence 16 year olds are given these days. I might have been an outlier but a income from a very dodgy area of Liverpool and a lot of my mates were working and/or renting flats with boyfriends by 18

Please say you are joking?!

16 year olds need to be in education or in an apprenticeship programme until they’re 18 now. They can’t swan off and get a full time job and happily rent somewhere with their mates.

There aren’t many 18 year olds who will be able to afford to rent flats in this day and age.

Seriously so much tone deafness on this thread. This is what is depressing. Middle aged idiots who have no idea what it’s like to be young trying to navigate finances in an incredibly bleak society.

10+ years of austerity. Depressing. Depressing. Depressing.

I went to uni, married at 22, lived with in law's and DH for 3 years before buying our flat (in London) at 27. My DH is British but it's quite normal where I come from to live in a multi generational set up. It's also normal for adult children to hand over 5-20% of their income to their parents to support them once they start working so while living at home might be cheaper than renting, it's not an option to delay growing up . A lot of parents do save the money for their kids so any money given to their parents isn't money down the drain. I see it more as a relationship of reciprocity - parents care for you, pay for university and house you until you marry and buy your own place; you are obliged to pay for the healthcare and living costs when they are old and infirm. In a way, it means that people who are starting out get supported by parents who are probably still in work and in a home that is probably mostly paid off. And then they support their parents when they are more established in their careers in their 40s and parents are nearing 80s. As I lived with MIL for three years, I expect to be supporting her when she is older and can no longer vote, I will not see her suffer on state pension and substandard NHS healthcare.

This setup is not popular because right now, British people are so lucky to have a welfare state and state pensions and all that nice stuff. I just read a guardian article that 30 million British people would no longer be able to afford the minimum standard of living by 2024. I don't think getting an apprenticeship and marrying early and having a house is going to help your mental health much if 40% of the population (many of them young) are struggling to heat and eat. If anything, people of limited means should be scaling back their expectations and living longer with family and pooling resources. Not privately renting because of how unstable and expensive it is. Not getting a huge mortgage because of how high mortgage interest rates are. I think it is high expectations that everyone should be able to survive on their own with some top up from the state that is causing mental health problems. The nuclear family set up is relatively recent as well as the pensions set up (conceived by Bismarck when the average lifespan was 60+). I don't think we should expect we should continue to enjoy such luxurious lives, we should expect that we have to live for a long time with family (so in a sense, going to university wouldn't delay one's trajectory by much if already living at home) as rentals would only get more expensive and wages would only get lower. In any case, it is also a good idea for older parents to offer their young free accomodation in their 20s so that in future, they can return the favour in 30 years time when there is no state pension and many old people would either be dependent on goodwill from family or charity. When you are poor (as 50% of the population would be), familial good will is a form of currency..when you have no money and the state cannot afford to pay for your healthcare or your pension, you can only rely on your family and friends. Families have more of an obligation

The current nuclear family set up is a great setup for a prosperous country but the UK is not a rich country anymore. Or rather it is a country where the top 5% are rich but the rest are not. I am quite left wing myself and I support the welfare state but increasingly I think maybe we should accept that the UK is getting poorer.

This is why ultra orthodox Judaism encourages very young marriage. Rather than sowing wild oats you are focused on supporting your family. It's considered to be beneficial for all concerned.

This whole thread gave me this ear worm but esp this post.

gi me the birth control...

Having children before buying a house does make it more difficult to buy a house. Jewish people are lucky in the sense that they mainly live in London/Herts/Manchester so they are fairly near economic centres so would hopefully have had a few years of living at home for a decent deposit even if they marry young/have kids young. That's how we managed to buy in London- it was all thanks to DH's mum insistence on living near her synagogue in the 1990s even if it meant staying in a 1 bed flat with 3 children until she could afford a house in the same area. If she had not been Jewish she would have moved out of London and probably we would not have been able to live with her and have our jobs in London.

Jewish people are lucky in the sense that they mainly live in London/Herts/Manchester
That will be news to the worldwide Jewish community 😉

Well antisemitism is separate to this issue. I meant relative to most people in the UK who would mostly not have a family home in the capital or even within commuting distance. Most of the Jewish diaspora do tend to live in cities, as my rabbi says we are an urban people. I guess this is changing as an increasing percentage of Jewish people now live in Israel.

@rudolphrainbownose No.

I will partially agree with you on education, i.e. that too many young adults drift into a degree that does them no good because we don't talk enough about the alternatives to uni and how they're just as valid. I also don't think uni is a particularly worthwhile use of anyone's time unless they do a vocational degree. I have a non-vocational degree - it's a very good one from a very good uni - but speaking honestly, even though it made me more employable, I don't think I got much out of it. The lie just perpetuates. I suppose it keeps academics in a job.

The housing crisis is forcing more people to stay at home for longer, as is the difficulty in getting your first relevant job to the career you want. However, I'd say entitlement is part of the problem. I know plenty of young people who think their only two choices are living with their parents or renting a very expensive posh flat with more rooms than they need. They seem to think that a houseshare is beneath them (what do they think they're doing with family?), but it would allow them more independence and still the ability to save a little. They don't need to rent the sort of flat they'd like to one day buy - when you first move out, you have to set expectations lower.

I think if women want to have children, they should think about it carefully from a younger age as fertility does decline remarkably sharply. However, it's incredibly insulting to suggest that having a child is what makes a woman's life complete. It's also insulting to suggest that women in their 30s are unhappy because they didn't have a kid ten years earlier and thus have a fulfilling relationship with a man.

If you're in your 20s and dating men your own age, chances are, you'll end up a single mum because men in their 20s are immature and run away. Being a single mum takes away a large number of choices in the UK - the cost of childcare can be prohibitive, especially if you have no family support. And if you're in your 20s and dating older men, maybe you've found love, and love doesn't recognise age gaps, but more likely, you're being taken advantage of.

The women who fall in love in their 20s, have children and stay in lasting relationships are the lucky exception not the norm. The women who don't end up in that situation don't end up in their situation because they're doing anything wrong.

And don't forget, some women don't want children, and that's OK. And also don't forget that being single is also OK.

I agree that women should get security in relationships, but a lot of men these days are just shit. We'd be doing young women a disservice to teach them that all men are nice and will treat them well - we have to be honest as to what red flags to look out for and how to protect themselves from financial inequality/abuse in a relationship.

I'd love to wave a magic wand and make all unpartnered-off men decent men, but I'm not Harry bloody Potter.

the active discouragement of having children in your 20's , probably robs a lot of women of a focus, ( because having your own family is often a nice focus), than drifting around without a purpose gives them.

Lmao come on OP. Only the unhappiest and most messed up of my peer group had kids in their 20s. The happier, more successful, more stable ones all started families in their 30s.

I would look instead to growing inequality and the poor prospects available to many young people.

I do think social media is an unmitigated disaster for mental wellbeing though.

Hmmmm...I agree that lack of direction and opportunity can cause mental health issues. However, you can have direction and standards while also holding off on starting a family. I met my DH while studying one of those 'pointless' degrees.

We lived in our university city for a couple of years after I graduated as my DH needed an Masters for his career. I spent that time working in a bar, doing an internship, volunteering and travelling around Europe. I had a great time and found a career path off the back of the internship.

We then moved into my in laws for 2 years to save for 3 months of travelling and a house deposit. I started my career after travelling and became a home owner at 25. My in laws loved spending that time with us and it has certainly allowed us to have stronger relationships.

I got married at 28 and spent 7 years in my career before I had my first DC at 30. I'm now a SAHM that is thoroughly enjoying motherhood following lots of incredible experiences. I'm about to launch a business, and that is only possible because my lovely in laws care for my DC one day a week.

I've really enjoyed each stage of life so far and that is partially because I always had direction but also because I took my time to get married and have children.

In the end, I think that teenagers need more freedoms AND responsibilities to give them to confidence to tackle life's future challenges. Too many parents fuss over their teenagers and won't let go and gives them a childish mentality into adulthood.

I'm always so glad I had my child in my 30s, I don't think it has done much to my 'focus', whatever that is supposed to mean.

Oh, also I got married at 24, so fairly youngish, but we both wanted to do other things before having a child.

I think you are trying to justify your course of life. Married with a lack of understanding about mental health .

The new generations have dealt with so much, recessions, the Conservative party messing a lot of things up for them. A global pandemic which wasn't great for anyone.

It's such a sweeping post, If anything women have been taught to look after themselves better, and that it is ok to have sex and enjoy it. You don't have to rush into kids.

You waffle on about so much. It's frustrating.