To think the encouragement to delay real life is a big cause in the explosion of mental health issues in under 35's ?

[rudolphrainbownose]

Okay, so there is a well documented mental health crisis amongst young people , particularly university students, needing mental health support.

Is it just me or is the current culture of delaying "real adulthood" ( staying at school longer, young marriage/ pregnancy actively discouraged and frowned upon, uni unofficially taking the school leaving age to 23 for middle class young people, staying living at their parents well into their late 20's/ early 30's....)

To me it seems discouraging starting real adult life is fuelling this.

1. Young women are told not to expect "security" in relationships, they are almost told to expect being ghosted by a series of men "not wanting to put a label on it," and going on a series of disastrous online dates is better than settling down young. Look how much marriage amongst under 25's is frowned upon on Mumsnet.

But I don't see many aspects of the dating scene today, ("friends with benefits" being cool, sex often expected without commitment before or afterwards on the first couple of dates, having to actually spell out you don't want the guy you are dating online to continue dating others online, being ghosted and blocked for no reason, being particularly healthy for the mental health of young people). Yet this is sold to them as more empowering than settling down into a steady relationship at a relatively young age....

2. I'll expect to be flamed for this, but the active discouragement of having children in your 20's , probably robs a lot of women of a focus, ( because having your own family is often a nice focus), than drifting around without a purpose gives them. This also leads to probably more people experiencing the panic of miscarriage and infertility , ( risks increasing with age), into their 30's.

3. Active encouragement into University without thinking often leads to a horrendously mentally unhealthy lifestyle.

For those with a passion for the subject, or doing a vocational course that leads to a career, of course university should be supported.

But that is not the case for your average student. Your average student goes to uni because, broadly speaking, it's what their college or sixth form expects of anyone vaguely academic. They pick a subject with no fixed career that they are at best, vaguely interested in, ( managed to scrape a B in business studies A Level, hated it the least, so I'll do it at uni to delay working for three years).

They head to uni to study a subject they are not particularly interested in, ith no idea what it will lead to afterwards. Most, have at most, six hours a week contact time, ( often less post covid). They sleep in late, browse the internet and get smashed a few times a week, ( the majority of students I know do not work in term time). Rinse and repeat. And they wonder why living this not very appealing lifestyle leaves students at poor risk of mental health ? And many are encouraged to take on a masters in a subject they are not interested in, with no direct career, to delay entering the real world for another year. They live in a bubble with people of the same age and inexperience as them. Compare that to a 19 year old office juniour being up and about, learning about the world of work, going for after work drinks with colleagues of a variety of ages ?

And the housing crisis means they are still likely to be living at home, ( especially if they are single), until 30. Often treated like overgrown teenagers, still in the habit of explaining to their parents where they are going of an evening. My friend , ( male), was explaining to me that at 28 he was working himself up to staying the night at his new girlfriends as he was so embarrassed to explain where he was to his parents, ( because if he told them he wouldn't be home for dinner as he was staying at his girlfriend's , they'd realise he was having sex).

In short, is delaying marriage, babies, work , moving out and leaving education actually causing everyone to be directionless and unhappy ?

@rudolphrainbownose
how old are you?

I ask because I reckon you’re very early thirties.

i think it’s ultimately social media that leads to mental health issues - that feeling of needing/wanting it all (which we never had in my twenties/early thirties).

i don’t know a single person who married and had children in their early twenties who is still married - including a couple of family members.

The people who are happy (and happily married), worked hard at school, went to uni, got a profession and worked hard in their twenties and then married and had children. None have mental health issues either.

Actually I disagree with everything you've written. But only based on ds1 and all his friends, plus he tells me nearly all the students from his 6th form. Stable, no MH issues, gone to uni with careers in mind. That's good enough for me.

I agree with a lot you say op.

Do you have kids of your own OP? Do you feel like your life has more direction and happiness since having children?

I don't agree with you BTW. I think people's mental health has been shite for centuries. People are better off now. They don't need to work until they die in their 60s. People have more free time to navel gaze and talk about it more now is all.

One of the funniest posts I've read on MN in a while - thanks for the laugh, OP.

I think the explosion in MH issues in under 35s is more to do with the fact they've been living with a shitty economy and are poorer than their parents, with little chance of owning property, getting decent jobs and getting paid for their hard work. They've known nothing but below inflation pay rises their entire working life and have watched house prices go up thousands of per cent since their childhood.

Women are getting married later because their standards are improving, and that can only be a good thing. Also, it's men that don't want to have kids in their twenties, usually, and delay things for women.

I see a lot of posters on here who seem to almost revel in their teenagers' dependence.

Oh she has anxiety so can't be home after dark on her own. Oh he can't get a job, he need to focus on his studies. Oh I don't let my 15 year old cook on their own because they might set fire to themselves

I feel like teenagers probably get lower and lower self esteem from being treated like jibbering idiots.

I don't want to go back to the bad old days when we didn't acknowledge mental health issues but I do think lots of parents don't encourage their kids towards independence any more

Yes re our mothers, grandmothers, great grandmothers. Mental health issues run in my family but only the newer generations talk about it. For the rest it was brushed aside/hidden to avoid being labelled hysterical.

Hmm I’m not sure, all I do know is the difference between myself and my friends in Early 20’s is huge with the ones I know now (dh’s nieces and nephews)
I wanted to leave to live abroad at 18, and would’ve been ok doing that, but I finished my degree and then left to live abroad in a non English speaking country, got a job, rented a flat etc and just got on with it, at age 22, this seemed fairly old back then.
I travelled the world etc and was just v independent as was everyone I knew..from a very early age.
Recently Dh’s niece and partner came to stay with us (we live abroad) they’re 26 and live at home, don’t drive yet etc…I couldn’t believe how different they were, they wouldn’t/couldn’t order food (were worried about the language, but it’s a largely British speaking place, even so, have a try 🤷🏻‍♀️) We paid for them when eating out, they never offered or seemed to have money of their own. They are lovely people, but I honestly felt like we were their parents or that they were more like us at say 14, even though we were independent then in lots of ways too 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yes, though I would call it not 'encouragement to delay real life' but 'delays in reaching economic independence'. It's a practical problem, not (for most) an ideological choice.

I feel like teenagers probably get lower and lower self esteem from being treated like jibbering idiots.

I don't want to go back to the bad old days when we didn't acknowledge mental health issues but I do think lots of parents don't encourage their kids towards independence any more

I work with young people and see this a lot.

You're right OP. 100%.

It's not about having children per se. But it's about the encouragement of essentially spending your 20's waiting for life to start.

What does delayed marriage or having children in your 30s have to do with ‘spending your 20s waiting for your life to start’?
That is only true if you think the main goal in life is to marry and have children which not everyone subscribes to. I certainly didn’t feel I was waiting for my life to start because I was unmarried and childless in my 20s! Far from it.

I do think that there is something about the deferral of being in a committed adult relationship that probably is having a negative impact on well-being. Most of us enjoy stability and the mental health benefits of being in a good relationship I would think are significant, caring for someone and having your emotional needs met is really satisfying. If relationships are expected to be nothing more than friends with benefits until 30 that’s a lot of time without that experience.

Personally though I think there is a social contagion element to “mental health” in young people with a pathologising of normal human experience perpetuated through social media.

Absolutely spot on.

As long as you can say you are perfect OP seeing as you have such a negative view of younger people?
I agree with a few of your points but settling down at 28 with 2 kids, own house and a great job is far from easy to achieve nowadays and certainly not for everyone. It would be boring if we all wanted the same things in life and some have to struggle harder then others to get what they want in life especially if they are single, chronic health issues, don't have family financial support. Of course someone will pop up on here saying they did all of it alone by the time they were 30 but times are a lot harder now. Both my aunts moved out at 21 back in the 90's. Both single and in average paying jobs. This was in London. No chance of them doing that now.
What I do agree with is that childhood does seem to be extended and uni doesn't help with this especially as degrees unless in something specific seem to mean very little now.
But generally I think you are being quite judgemental.

I think a lot of it has to do with social media- we all know it's bad but it's also the main way of 'socialising' now so not as easy to avoid as it might seem.
also everything is shit and we can't afford anything and never have been able to and probably never will be able to.
of course mental health is far less taboo now too so it's hard to say what is an in tease in MH issues and what is an increase in awareness of MH issues.

There's merit to your idea but on marrying young/having kids essentially the idea is coming across as 'should be done before you have time to think about it'
Which tbh, plenty of people do. And then end up trapped.

I find the logic here rather odd. From my personal and professional experience, if you ask most young people I think the reasons for mental health problems are related to finances, inability to buy a property, worries about the state of the planet, worries about how society in their eyes is often going backwards. I don't disagree with some of your points, but I don't agree that people having children, or going to uni, or staying at home longer are causes of mental health issues. Rather causes are the state of the world/economy and a lack of a future.

Too many people leaving school and going to university and ending up in careers (jobs) where a degree is absolutely not necessary. Even if said job asks for a degree, to be a PA for example, you most definitely don't need a university education. Far too many soulless office jobs with too much time to think.

Ah so women should be popping out babies to also give men a focus, right great got it

We can ignore the mother's over medicated with anti depressants in the 1950s, mothers little helpers in the 1970s etc etc

But actually studies have shown that women who have children later are less likely to be depressed and more likely to be happy with life than women who have children younger. Partly because they have had time to get their careers sorted etc.

So perhaps a woman in her early 20s is better off not focusing on having a baby?

I agree. And while I can't speak for everyone, I avoided having children for years as I was determined I wouldn't be "trapped" in that way. The message fed to us from so many directions, from teenage years was that having children is a lazy choice and only the not very bright do that. It was uni and then career all the way. Yet I had my children and was never happier. I once said to a friend, before I had ds I could go for months, even years never feeling a moments joy, I lived with years of low level depression, but since I had ds I have felt truly happy and joyful at some point every single day. My kids are teens now and I still feel the same way.

Because marrying at 21 is always such a good idea. What bollocks.

I think my mental health would be better if I was less skint. Probably also, tbf, if I was in a relationship, but that’s not my choice.

I agree there is issues but not everyone wants a long term partner or child

I do not like the idea of 'kids need to be seen and not heard' and pansished from society but it think it feels society has gone too far the other way and kids seem to be being smothered

I think if people were happy in themselves and not feel the need to want all the time then maybe things may improve

'I want a brilliant job, I want an amazing partner, I want kids, I want I want'

There is nothing wrong with aiming for anything but parents expect certain things then kids do

'Right you are about to finish school you have to go to uni, you need a good job because I will have failed as a parent if you dont'

Then there is going from one partner to the other because you can't be happy on your own, omg I have to have kids now!

There is nothing wrong with being in a serious relationship young and having kids young, or older or not at all

Nothing wrong with living where you grow up for ever and never going anywhere or travelling the world

But do it because you genuinely want too, totally your independent choice

I always thought university was a great "cushion" between school and proper adulthood...you get to move to a new town, the accommodation is usually OK at least for the first year (halls are basic but clean/warm, better than lots of student houses), you learn to look after yourself without mum/dad as an immediate back up etc.

(My fees were only £3000 a year though, not £9000 plus like today's students)

(I also think maybe under 35s is too broad, the average 34 year old will probably have very different worries to average 24 year old)

As someone in my early 20s, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I didn’t take the uni route and gained qualifications vocationally, settled with my DP (who will be DH in the next 2 years) and TTC in the next 12 months most likely all going to plan. I feel alien to my peers sometimes and not in a good way.
I think there’s a lot to be said for enjoying care-free, responsibility free life or just being selfish and getting to know yourself! Have fun and spend your 20s how you want to. However, if you spend too long ‘finding yourself’ it seems you never do, which is a rather contrary truth. People do view 20s as an extension of teenage years. I know people in their late 20s with no ambition to ever move out of their parents house despite being able to afford to, they’ll start a family and find their foot on the career ladder when they’re 40 and are perfectly happy doing this. It feels right for them. Each to their own but you make a good point. Interesting read.