To think the encouragement to delay real life is a big cause in the explosion of mental health issues in under 35's ?

[rudolphrainbownose]

Okay, so there is a well documented mental health crisis amongst young people , particularly university students, needing mental health support.

Is it just me or is the current culture of delaying "real adulthood" ( staying at school longer, young marriage/ pregnancy actively discouraged and frowned upon, uni unofficially taking the school leaving age to 23 for middle class young people, staying living at their parents well into their late 20's/ early 30's....)

To me it seems discouraging starting real adult life is fuelling this.

1. Young women are told not to expect "security" in relationships, they are almost told to expect being ghosted by a series of men "not wanting to put a label on it," and going on a series of disastrous online dates is better than settling down young. Look how much marriage amongst under 25's is frowned upon on Mumsnet.

But I don't see many aspects of the dating scene today, ("friends with benefits" being cool, sex often expected without commitment before or afterwards on the first couple of dates, having to actually spell out you don't want the guy you are dating online to continue dating others online, being ghosted and blocked for no reason, being particularly healthy for the mental health of young people). Yet this is sold to them as more empowering than settling down into a steady relationship at a relatively young age....

2. I'll expect to be flamed for this, but the active discouragement of having children in your 20's , probably robs a lot of women of a focus, ( because having your own family is often a nice focus), than drifting around without a purpose gives them. This also leads to probably more people experiencing the panic of miscarriage and infertility , ( risks increasing with age), into their 30's.

3. Active encouragement into University without thinking often leads to a horrendously mentally unhealthy lifestyle.

For those with a passion for the subject, or doing a vocational course that leads to a career, of course university should be supported.

But that is not the case for your average student. Your average student goes to uni because, broadly speaking, it's what their college or sixth form expects of anyone vaguely academic. They pick a subject with no fixed career that they are at best, vaguely interested in, ( managed to scrape a B in business studies A Level, hated it the least, so I'll do it at uni to delay working for three years).

They head to uni to study a subject they are not particularly interested in, ith no idea what it will lead to afterwards. Most, have at most, six hours a week contact time, ( often less post covid). They sleep in late, browse the internet and get smashed a few times a week, ( the majority of students I know do not work in term time). Rinse and repeat. And they wonder why living this not very appealing lifestyle leaves students at poor risk of mental health ? And many are encouraged to take on a masters in a subject they are not interested in, with no direct career, to delay entering the real world for another year. They live in a bubble with people of the same age and inexperience as them. Compare that to a 19 year old office juniour being up and about, learning about the world of work, going for after work drinks with colleagues of a variety of ages ?

And the housing crisis means they are still likely to be living at home, ( especially if they are single), until 30. Often treated like overgrown teenagers, still in the habit of explaining to their parents where they are going of an evening. My friend , ( male), was explaining to me that at 28 he was working himself up to staying the night at his new girlfriends as he was so embarrassed to explain where he was to his parents, ( because if he told them he wouldn't be home for dinner as he was staying at his girlfriend's , they'd realise he was having sex).

In short, is delaying marriage, babies, work , moving out and leaving education actually causing everyone to be directionless and unhappy ?

I work with a lot of young women in their mid 20s and none of them seem capable of making any kind of decision whether it be big or small without calling their mothers (usually on speaker phone and during work time ) . They diagnose themselves with ADHD and anxiety from watching Tick Tock . The irony is they have all got a professional qualification which allows them to have a massive impact on other peoples lives and indeed wider society and I honestly struggle at the thought of some of them making big decisions in our job when they have basically left school went to uni and got the job with us . I am only one generation apart from them but I honestly feel like an alien at times in their company .

Had a baby and a mortgage at 21. After dropping out of Uni some quarter of a century ago. Foolishly signed over house to baby's father. Moved home. Never really got anywhere since. YABU.

Yes, I totally agree.

I do think OP is right about general growing up too. I had friends who moved out of home at 16. Two because they were in love and wanted to set up home together (still together, forty years later!) Some because home life was hell and one because he just felt independent and wanted to live in a flat with mates. He did A levels at college so by the time he went to uni he'd already left home two years before.

No one sold us the myth that life was a state of permanent happiness and excitement.

No, it doesn’t.

Also, I don't know anybody now (50s) that married in their 20's or even early 30s. That are still together. Kids involved of course. Most co-parent, but I really don't think you've got it right OP.

On the contrary, all the girls from my school who settled down young are now massively downtrodden and haggard, dragging kids up the best they can on they very little they earn doing some eyelash extensions, while wasting their lives on a sunk costs fallacy of a relationship with a coked up knucklehead who injects steroids, drinks 20 pints and shags around on a weekend.

Loads of reasons

Social media and people comparing their life with the false version sold by 'influencers' Comparison is the thief of joy for a reason.

Infantilising children for longer. A certain degree of resilience is needed to cope with real life because at times it can be really crap and you need coping mechanisms, but I see more and more parents shielding their adult kids from the realities of life, you can support them without smothering or constantly bailing them out.
The difference between my 18 year old self and current 18 year olds is worlds apart

This:
DS2 and I have discussed the pathologising of normal but negative emotions: anxiety, stress, unhappiness, and loneliness. These are all now 'issues' instead of 'life' and treated as though they need therapy and a lot of attention rather than just coped with.

I see this all the time in my younger relatives, they aren't allowed to be unhappy or worried about normal everyday inconveniences without it being declared as stress and anxiety.

Also my generation - 197Os born are the Prozac generation.

What a load of codswallop. You're confusing correlation with causation.

Doesn't it though? I did that. I know a lot of us work at home but there must be some places still like that?

There is more "community" in 2023, given our mobility, social media/digital access, free flow of information, access to uni, etc. than there ever has been in the entire history of humankind. Come on!

Holy moly that’s very unlucky, where do you live?

Most of the people I know who ‘settled down young’ met their other half at uni and married at about 25. All seem happy and still together.

Same. The people who stayed in my hometown and married young and had kids certainly don’t seem happy. They don’t have a life that I’d want.

I think housing is the biggest issue

I think there's something in this tbh.

I massively disagree with this. Women need a child to focus? Erm, they can have a sense of purpose without a family can't they? As can men?

'Real life' is long and arduous. Why not delay by a couple of years! I'm very glad I did and I think it only affected me positively.

On the contrary, all the girls from my school who settled down young are now massively downtrodden and haggard, dragging kids up the best they can on they very little they earn doing some eyelash extensions, while wasting their lives on a sunk costs fallacy of a relationship with a coked up knucklehead who injects steroids, drinks 20 pints and shags around on a weekend.

To be honest, that's my experience as well of people I went to school with. Those who settled down later, following uni, are doing much better.

There is more "community" in 2023, given our mobility, social media/digital access, free flow of information, access to uni, etc. than there ever has been in the entire history of humankind. Come on!

But its a very superficial community. You can have loads of social media 'friends' but very few of them would show up if you were in trouble.

I grew up in a community, the women supported each other, looked after each other's children, and helped out elderly neighbours who became ill. I could walk into any of my neighbours houses and get a drink and a biscuit. You weren't on your own raising children, you had support. The women were in and out of each others houses, they chatted, they helped each other.they weren't raising kids solo.
Now it's all very superficial not a real practical community.

Its possible we have the same hometown…

While I do agree with you to some extent that all of those factors likely play a part in potential increased mental health crisis I do think the main element impacting the mental health of people in their 20’s is “hopelessness” which is massively triggered by our current era and current living situation:

-Economically speaking (how we pay a lot more to in the end get a lot less for it than what our parents or grandparents did.)

— Ecologically speaking (young people want to have fun and explore the world but we are made so very aware of our carbon footprint and the death of our planet and have the pressure of being the “last hope” and so simple things like turning on the heater or keeping the lights on causes us weird guilt, to the point nothing is guilt-free anymore (veganism becoming very popular also enhance that!)

— Socially speaking: ( we have grown up hearing about the damages of committing to wrong person or of trying to be in a relationship without knowing ourselves well, most people are therefore terrified to end up in a toxic relationship or to be toxic, leading to less people committing which leads to less people feeling like the right person, which leads to people less keen to get out there and so on and so forth. Phones also have added the pressure of needing to keep in touch and engage and be responsible all of the time, that all whilst navigating all other aspects of our lives.)

— Work-wise (the cost of life means that most young adult aim for a higher salary, most of them have studied and therefore do feel entitled to more than minimum wage as that’s what was promised to them, unfortunately most degrees now, rarely leads to what was promised and most average salaries only serve to cover the basics and don’t stretch much further than that. For most people saving towards a deposit or towards a new car is something that would require them moving back home to their parents rent-free. Again, young people have gone further study wise than their predecessors as it used to be the holy grail only to realize that their grandpa who stopped school at 13 had it maybe harder than them but in the end was economically better off than them and now enjoys his retirement which is also likely a piperdream for most 20yo who are very aware retirement age will likely be well in the 70’s if it’s even a thing by then.

— Study wise (Unis are expensive and they don’t even guarantee you the nice salary or fun career they used to. They just guarantee you stress and debt for a few years with the hope it will lead to something better.)

— Social media; (we live in a world where we are continuously comparing ourselves to others and are continuously being compared to others even against our will. Photos are being published of us, our words, actions, bad days, food intake, documented and mainly impossible to erase once there. Meaning that the image or bad day or mistake we make that goes public will follow us even post-Mortem, which is an added pressure former generations didn’t have. Same as revenge porn, internet stalkers, people who hack your bank accounts or steal your identity online. )

And finally:

-World news and world politics. (The world we live in is utterly depressing. For someone like me born in the 90’s it’s incredibly sad to see that things that the world was at a better place the day I was born than after and especially now. It’s incredibly hard specifically to see how women’s rights have decreased over the last 20-30 years with things like abortion rights being overturned, extremists or bigoted people rising to power, things like Brexit (that for now do more harm than good and add to the division and lack of freedom), terrorists attacks all over the world, still homophobic attacks in gay clubs, wars, new virus etc… in our hyper connected world it’s impossible to ignore the news and shelter ourselves from how miserable the world is and still is and one can’t help but be depressed by that.)

Any, but especially ALL these reasons explain why young people are depressed and anxious and aimless. Not because of lack of kids or not being married (as I strongly believe that the motherhood rate would have historically been much lower in the last couple of centuries if women had been allowed their independence and to have another role in society than just the one of “wife and mother” and had had the means to stop it (as most women likely had kids due to lack of contraceptive + societal pressure to produce children), which, I am sure, in itself caused equally poor mental health at the time). but because what’s the point of doing anything when nothing that you do is likely to lead to the results you hope for? And when it seems like the planet is dying and that if it doesn’t die we are only a step away from a crazy world leader chosing violence and going for a nuclear war, anyway just because. And STILL if nothing happens, inflation and rising prices will continue to keep us working to the bone with nothing to show for it & likely until our grave because retirement seems almost impossible and who knows what health we will be in by then etc… those are the thoughts of most people in their 20’s I know. They are aimless because the future looks grim no matter which way you look at it, and what discourage people from having kids is not only not being able to afford them at 20 anymore, but also not wanting to impose them the same (or likely statistically speaking., a worse) fate as well as being ever aware how having kids is the worst ecological choice (ironically, keeping up with that catch 22 where some people now even feel guilty for having kids).

So YANBU about most of your arguments but you are underestimating the very real issues this he’s generation actually faces and why they aren’t comparable to former generations who faced a completely different set of issues and a complete different environment.

I have to say, none of this is my experience. I turned 23 in September. Qualified as a mental health nurse last year at 22 and moved out in the same week as starting my first ‘proper’ job. Moved in with my now fiancé who I’d been with for 4 years at that point. But I am from a very working class background which probably influences it. Goes against much of what was said in your first post.

But community still exists. I look after my neighbours kids when she is ill, another neighbour looks after my pets when I am away etc

Yes I'm in a rural village but even when I lived in town I had kids I would babysit for when their parents needed it as a favour and neighbours I would shop for or who would shop for me or take in my parcels

meanwhile I have two friends I made through social media who would let me live with them if anything went wrong and I would do the same for them.

Community is what you make of it. There are women on here who have accused me of grooming children because I am happy to volunteer or look after children when I don't have any of my own. For them community is certainly missing.

I think it begins earlier than uni choices. Kids in my area don’t play freely out of school until secondary school and even then maybe not for first year or two (always organised play dates with drop offs, phone tracking etc) can’t ( or don’t want) to manage a trip to local shop, cross road safely etc driven to school if rains, days off when it snows. When the are 12, most fully expect another 10 years of school minimum. So yes, they generally mature much later and many parents expect this. But don’t forget RETIREMENT for these kids will be a good plus 10 years compared to most MN posters.
not saying it’s wrong. Just what is commonly happening now and it will probably change as very good apprenticeship opportunities grow

Uni leaving age is usually 21 not 23 just FYI

Also I'm 27, been with my partner 9 years, own a home 300 miles from parents and have a professional career and no kids. I can have purpose without being a mother yet.

I'm still mentally unwell and see a therapist.