To think the encouragement to delay real life is a big cause in the explosion of mental health issues in under 35's ?

[rudolphrainbownose]

Okay, so there is a well documented mental health crisis amongst young people , particularly university students, needing mental health support.

Is it just me or is the current culture of delaying "real adulthood" ( staying at school longer, young marriage/ pregnancy actively discouraged and frowned upon, uni unofficially taking the school leaving age to 23 for middle class young people, staying living at their parents well into their late 20's/ early 30's....)

To me it seems discouraging starting real adult life is fuelling this.

1. Young women are told not to expect "security" in relationships, they are almost told to expect being ghosted by a series of men "not wanting to put a label on it," and going on a series of disastrous online dates is better than settling down young. Look how much marriage amongst under 25's is frowned upon on Mumsnet.

But I don't see many aspects of the dating scene today, ("friends with benefits" being cool, sex often expected without commitment before or afterwards on the first couple of dates, having to actually spell out you don't want the guy you are dating online to continue dating others online, being ghosted and blocked for no reason, being particularly healthy for the mental health of young people). Yet this is sold to them as more empowering than settling down into a steady relationship at a relatively young age....

2. I'll expect to be flamed for this, but the active discouragement of having children in your 20's , probably robs a lot of women of a focus, ( because having your own family is often a nice focus), than drifting around without a purpose gives them. This also leads to probably more people experiencing the panic of miscarriage and infertility , ( risks increasing with age), into their 30's.

3. Active encouragement into University without thinking often leads to a horrendously mentally unhealthy lifestyle.

For those with a passion for the subject, or doing a vocational course that leads to a career, of course university should be supported.

But that is not the case for your average student. Your average student goes to uni because, broadly speaking, it's what their college or sixth form expects of anyone vaguely academic. They pick a subject with no fixed career that they are at best, vaguely interested in, ( managed to scrape a B in business studies A Level, hated it the least, so I'll do it at uni to delay working for three years).

They head to uni to study a subject they are not particularly interested in, ith no idea what it will lead to afterwards. Most, have at most, six hours a week contact time, ( often less post covid). They sleep in late, browse the internet and get smashed a few times a week, ( the majority of students I know do not work in term time). Rinse and repeat. And they wonder why living this not very appealing lifestyle leaves students at poor risk of mental health ? And many are encouraged to take on a masters in a subject they are not interested in, with no direct career, to delay entering the real world for another year. They live in a bubble with people of the same age and inexperience as them. Compare that to a 19 year old office juniour being up and about, learning about the world of work, going for after work drinks with colleagues of a variety of ages ?

And the housing crisis means they are still likely to be living at home, ( especially if they are single), until 30. Often treated like overgrown teenagers, still in the habit of explaining to their parents where they are going of an evening. My friend , ( male), was explaining to me that at 28 he was working himself up to staying the night at his new girlfriends as he was so embarrassed to explain where he was to his parents, ( because if he told them he wouldn't be home for dinner as he was staying at his girlfriend's , they'd realise he was having sex).

In short, is delaying marriage, babies, work , moving out and leaving education actually causing everyone to be directionless and unhappy ?

Interesting fact. The portion of the brain that deals in recognizing consequences does not fully develop in women until around age 25, and in men it is even later...around age 30.

It is very possible that delaying these things does a bit of both....young people feel a bit rudderless, but when they DO make a choice, it is more considered than when they are younger.

Ah another youngster bashing thread, cry me a river 🙃

You’re not wrong. I’ve been feeling the same way. While I don’t think all women need to get married and have children to be happy, I think many are delaying those milestones because it’s fashionable or because they are scared but they actually want those things.

I was met with a lot of unexpected skepticism when I was engaged, married and then again when I became pregnant.

I’ve been in a very happy healthy long term relationship though so… I just don’t understand it.

When I got engaged I was in a relationship for 7 years and it has been smooth sailing the entire time. You know how people talk about the honeymoon phase going away after 2 years? We were still in it. We were 26. We eloped. I felt like I was spiritually married to this man for years already. When I told my friends they were shocked. They said aren’t you too young to be married?! I didn’t see the point of waiting. 26 is well into adulthood and the relationship was clearly very solid. What were we waiting for exactly?

Then I announced my planned pregnancy at 30. Still very happy very smooth relationship. Once again met with shock but this time from my friends AND my parents. Once again saying I was too young. Look I don’t want to be rude but I can’t think of a more ideal scenario to become pregnant. Happy in love parents who want baby and have money, plans and space for baby to be and have been together for 10+ years still going strong.

Are we just waiting for some arbitrary number? How is 30 too young? I was starting to feel like if they had it their way we would have waited until menopause kicked in or something.

I don’t want to speak ill of the people that I love but my parents got married waaaayy too young so I think they were projecting that fear onto me because of it. As for my friends I love them but they are all in very screwed up relationships. We got the girl whose been engaged for ten years and depressed realizing she’ll never get married, the guy who is upset that he can’t find girls who will accept his polyamory sexuality and changes relationships like he changes his underwear, the girl who focused on becoming a pilot for so long that she’s now unable to conceive because she waited too long to properly date and start a family and is now trying to find egg donors so she can become pregnant… alone. And another that feels like she has to settle for a cheating boyfriend and calls it an open relationship so others don’t ask too many questions…

They joke that I’m old fashioned. I guess being in love and daring to be loved back and having a family is old fashioned now. That’s kind of depressing.

I will gladly be labeled as outdated then deal with… any of that mess.

I get where you are coming from with this but each situation is different and sometimes its the only option. I have 3 adult DC, my eldest left home and bought a place with his GF when he was 29, he saved and with the addition of an inheritance from his grandma he managed to finally buy and move on with his life. He also stayed with me I feel as I had gone through DA and split from his DF and was in a bad place, I think he wanted to help get me through it and even when he left home, both him and his GF constantly contacted me to check I was OK, so it was more he felt I needed support than the other way round. My DS is 33 and his GF have got engaged but want to move to a larger home with a garden before they have a family, they are worried about the cost of living at the moment and dont feel its the right time to move or start a family, his GF is 28 so probably wont have DC until early to mid thirties

My middle DS left for Uni and then instead of coming home, he rented with his GF (now wife) who he met at Uni, he said he would have come back but because I could only afford a small flat and he was used to living away from home he would cope better than the other 2, with finances and 'real life" He moved out at 18 I guess and it did do him well, he has an excellent job. lovely home and got married this year. Incidentally he works for the same organisation as me, and I see him more often than when he was living at home, I am always at their house dog sitting etc., His DW wants to be a SAHM when they have a family, and my DS has said they are waiting until they are financially secure to have DC if they do, he is 29 and she is 28 so no rush

My DD is 27 and lives with me, but her BF also lives here, he sadly lost his DM in 2020 during the pandemic and needed help as he found himself alone and potentially homeless at the age of 20 (yes my DD is 5 years older than him), My DD is in her final year of studying to be a teacher after making the decision to change her career and before that was on a relatively low wage as a TA and then a manager of a holiday care group for children. So low paid childcare roles and not in a position to either rent or buy. She will be buying somewhere next year with her BF at the age of 28 when she qualifies and gets a paid teaching post. Her BF has been promoted recently to a manager so both will be in a good position to buy, sadly both have also got a deposit each from inheritances, My DD and her BF have been lovely to have around and it has worked well. My DD has decided against having DC herself for health reasons so no ticking clock. (although she may change her mind)

My 3 all made very different choices about when the time to move out was, there was/is no pressure from me, and I think they made the right decision when I compare it to what happened to me. I left home at 19 bought my first home, them moved after 2 years and then again, we had 3 DC and were together 28 years, but I felt pressurised to leave home when I did, not by my family but because my Ex lost his parents when he was 18 and said I was all he had left and we should buy a place together. My DP didnt like him as said he bullied me and to be fair he was a bully, i was immature and got with him as an act of rebellion which in effect ruined 28 years of my life for making a point. I guess what I am saying, living at home for a bit longer if your not ready to move out or in the right relationship etc, isnt always the wrong thing.

To be fair I went back to live with my mum in my 40s whilst we sold up and split the home, My DM also was very unwell so I stayed to care for her until she had to go into a home with Alzeimers when she deteriorated.

People are all different and with the cost of living its no surpise that young people want to save up and live at home for longer, as long as it works for all parties then thats what works.

What if women don't want children? I don't and I have plenty of focus thanks! I will echo what others have said about those who have married young! The people I knew from school from my small hometown who married/settled down young have not broadened their horizons since school, lower income, have stayed in their hometown, drink at the same pubs, same group of friends, same small town mindset. They also generally look much older and tired like they've given up- we are only around 30 but plenty of them look like they are in their 40's! You will see plenty of the women on Facebook trying to engage you in their next hun army MLM. I would never swap my life of university, travel and establishing myself in my career, meeting my partner in my late 20's and buying a home together for settling with my sixth form boyfriend, taking on a 20k a year job and sending my kids to the same school I went to in the same small town. I appreciate the disastrous dates I've experienced in my 20's as they've helped me decide what I want in a partner and I believe have helped me ultimately find a better partner.

@Champagneexterior it’s quite clear OP is talking in a general sense isn’t it? And generally women (and men) do.

It's an interesting question, but to me the problem has a lot to do with people being fed a constant celebrity/influencer-led, picture perfect lifestyle without the celebrity/influencer income. People who buy into it end up trapped in debt. It has little to do with marriage or kids as security comes from within not from having a partner or kids.

My cousin married and had kids later in life and she said knowing what she knows now, alongside obviously feeling fortunate to be fertile, she's glad not to have lost her freedom through marriage or parenting at a younger age. She's always had great jobs, been financially secure and had high self-esteem.

It's great food for thought OP and your points about poor dating culture are good, but I reckon they just add to the main problem. I think most mental health issues are a combination of celebrity/influencer role models, comparing one's life to a social media feed, trying to (as mentioned above) live a celebrity lifestyle without a celebrity income (in reality most likely fuelled by the Bank of Mum and Dad), all leading to very low self-esteem and lack of real autonomy.

Why is it that certain kinds of people always assume that when someone is speaking generally that they must mean EVERYONE? Are you intentionally taking OP out of context for your narrative convenience or do you truly struggle with english this much? Did you miss the lessons on context clues in school?

Great post. Something I’ve thought about a lot over the last few years but you’ve articulated it really well.

This is my experience too.

I agree with OP that there's something to be said for it not being 'cool' to have high standards for relationships in your 20s. So many of my friends tiptoe around their boyfriends, trying to squeeze out some level of commitment without ever feeling able to actually ask for what they want. They don't want to come off "crazy" or "pushy".

I also think that with uni, there's no shame in getting a degree for the sake of it if it's something you're passionate about. I think high levels of education are good for society, whether or not it leads to a 'better' job. But false expectations about where a degree will lead would be disappointing, I suppose.

I think the trigger for the mental health crisis starts much earlier than op suggested.

I also think that parents, teachers and society at large are partially responsible. The mantra of everyone is a winner leaves young people ill prepared for negotiating adult life.

The most ironic part of this being that there are scads of very good looking young parent influencers on social media, basically funding their families by selling an ideal family life of travel and cute small children.

Also why is there such disdain for those who live in their hometowns all their life!
Me and DH live very close to where we grew up. Have been together since 16 (now 30) and are married with DC. Both have good educations (via Uni for me and Apprenticeship for DH) and earn similar wages that are good money for our area (mid 30k)
We live close to our parents and can help out with things and receive help vice Versa , and can support with caring for my grandparents.
I think in some ways the expectation that people are not expected to help older generations is quite damaging to society.

Perhaps this is your experience but certainly not mine or the world we live in.

I work at a College and we actively support our students progressing to university, we even have our own HE courses. But this is because this generation is expected to have a degree. It's the equivalent of what our GCSE English and maths results used to be, almost a minimum requirement now for anything more than an entry level job.

However, we do not encourage studying a vague subject that doesn't lead to a career, delaying growing up by studying and studying and ending up in debt. We focus on career progression, specific pathways etc.

I would argue the mental health crisis has more to do with social media than anything. Also, we've always had huge mental health issues but now it isn't something to be ashamed of so more people are speaking up and seeking help for it.

Damn! If only I’d known that focusing on finding a man, pumping out a couple of kids and settling down would be the answer to everything! Instead I have moved around, lived in various cities, enjoyed myself (without sex or a man as am completely disinterested in both) taught multiple classes of amazing little minds and (I know this is considered disgusting and wrong on here) but I enjoy living in rented accommodation so I can up sticks and move easily. Am I always happy - no. Have I had MH difficulties - occasionally. Would I change my life and experiences to settle down with a man and focus on a baby - no!

YABU. I had a baby at 18 and wouldn't recommend other women do the same.

I’ve found the parents of children in my own children’s classes who have waited and have children later seem more stable, more likely to own, more likely to pay for clubs etc. Don’t think having children young makes you a devoted parent.

I disagree with you on your point about later motherhood, but agree with the general sentiment of your views. Especially about universities.

I focussed on building my career in my 20s rather than having children.

YABVU

Oh god know not having kids in your 20 helps close the gender pay back, I would never change DS but I do wish I had him a few years later. Not balancing a child and post grad qualifications would have been much easier.

As for living at home longer, that comes down to the parents DS will have a key and be free to come and go as he please. Yes I will still make him tea but if he wants to reheat it at midnight or take it to work the next day to throw in the bin that's up to him.

You’ve made some good points. Boys especially are told to be “men” and them treated like children. Women are told to aspire to shallow goals such as looking good, which hardly fill the soul with purpose. They find it hard to build anything meaningful. People aren’t religious and nothing has replaced that value system.

The old system of getting married young, working hard, buying a house and having kids may be archaic but it was fairly successful at creating a stable society. Kids are increasingly being brought up in single parent families and seeing unstable relationships which don’t last.

Something needs to change and fast.

Kids are not learning resilience from trying and failing, or being independent. They are cushioned and cosseted all their lives. Probably because their parents suffered but some degree of standing on your own two feet is needed.

In many European countries people study at university until their late 20s and don't start work until then.

it’s quite clear OP is talking in a general sense isn’t it? And generally women (and men) do.

I thought for younger generations they don't generally want dc?

I don't think that's the issue.

My dm left school at 16 with few qualifications had me young and by the time she was my age had been divorced twice. She made choices on men based on needing someone to look after her and has no way to financially support herself. She is an intelligent woman who could have had a career if the expectations had been higher.

In contrast I have a degree, a career and much more stability. I'm married to a wonderful man and I have dc but have maintained my ability to support myself and my kids financially on my own should the need ever arise.

I do agree that for some students the academic course they are pushed on to are not always suitable, at gcse there need to be more vocational choices and the government needs to not downgrade schools progress 8 if they reduce the number of gcse's a child takes. The real issue is low wages and high cost of living. I think young people would like to move on with their lives but cannot afford to do it whilst at the same time being bombarded with social media telling them what life ought to look like. This is the cause of the mental health crisis.

Also didn't previous generations tend to mask their mental ill more? plus there was more reliance on crutches like alcohol & smoking?