Daughter embarrassed by sexual gesture at work

[G00d0mens]

I’m posting as I’m unsure if I have unrealistic expectations of society in general or if I am actually being unreasonable. Mumsnet has been a great help in the past.

Last night I got a text from my daughter to say that she felt very humiliated and wanted to come home (she works in our local pub).

She was shaking a cocktail and saw a manager make a juggling gesture with his hands (clearly a boob related gesture) to some customers who said « Don’t stop » when she stopped. She is a young 18 and has since said she felt very ashamed and angry after what had happened.

I did go down but she was talking to the boss and trying to sort it out and wanted to see out her shift. She was keen to know what actions would be taken as a result. For context, she is on a zero hour contract and worried about losing her job, which she loves in general.

She has gone in today but has said that it isn’t going well. I feel torn as I want to do what she wants but also can’t forget that when I was her age similar had happened to me. Probably to a lot of us? I was too embarrassed and ashamed to tell anyone (thought I would be blamed).

I thought she could take out a grievance if nothing is sorted but wondered as well -AIBU - she works behind a bar and this is to be expected? How sad if it is - I thought we were better as a society.

Advice please - she doesn’t want to lose her job but is also quite upset.

Thanking you all in advance.

She should complain, absolutely. The sad thing is that the deck is stacked against her - the manager will deny it and it's unlikely to have a formal outcome. She should be looking for a new role in preparation.

Your job is to make sure she feels proud of herself in any case and frankly, whatever decision she makes. It's a big thing to take a stand at that age, or decide not to. It would admirable if she did and left a record that would protect all of the girls who will come after her, but if she decides to prepare a clear public response for next time this happens, that's also taking back power.

Sadly it’s the ones who should know better who are the worst perpetrators because they know they will get away with it through shame or complacency
this^
old enough to know better = old enough to know exactly what they can get away with (except he's a bit behind the times)
choose a victim who they know will feel uncomfortable & unable to call him out,
we just have to face these old predators down until they've all died off

All sort of things went on when I was a young woman but that doesn't mean they are acceptable nowadays. We were actually told as schoolgirls that if our boss came on to us, we should pretend to be flattered but regretfully decline on the basis that we had a boyfriend, had strong religious beliefs or were saving ourselves for marriage!

Why are people saying the young woman should resign from her job? Or suck it up and say nothing. Why is it always the sexually harassed woman who who has to leave a job rather than the harasser? I'd really hoped that things have changed since I was that age 30+ years ago and working in hospitality. Just because we had to put up with loads of inappropriate shit back then (and it wasn't OK then either) doesn't mean they should now.

OP encourage your daughter to lodge a proper grievance and not to back down until she gets an apology and a committent that the manager has to undertake proper equal opportunities training.

Oh and there is no point you trying to speak to managers/HR on her behalf, they just won't talk to you, as other posters have said, this is your DD's workplace and parents have no place in it. But she can take a work colleague or trade union member to any meetings.

That's why there's a thread somewhere about infantilization of young people, Mum may be a good person to rant at and a shoulder to cry on but the employers should be refusing to discuss their employee's grievance with what is essentially an outsider.

Agree 100% that your DD should challenge this. Disgusting behaviour.

For those saying that the DD should be able to sort it herself - there are all kinds of situations where it is very normal for adults to have support and advocacy from others when navigating complex situations in employment, healthcare etc. A parent supporting a very young adult in a situation like this where they lack experience and confidence is a good, healthy thing.

Absolutely encourage her not to put up with this. Just because we had to doesn't mean the next generation of girls has to suck it up. Pubs shouldn't have a sexist, intimidating atmosphere; everyone should feel comfortable and respected.

What an absolute wanker of a boss.

I'd want her to put in a formal complaint to head office HR, but obviously it's up to her.

If the person harassing you in a pub is the manager, your options are indeed to put up with it or walk out. The police aren’t going to care, complaining is likely to make the day to day job completely unbearable (or she will just be sacked), and HR seriously are not going to care about what happens to a random part time barmaid anyway.

Be realistic, there is no course of action where HR leaps into action, this sleazy cunt turns into a pleasant person and she carries on working there with no further incidents.

There is no point in sugar coating this, if you work in a pub and the manager is a cunt to you, you are fucked.

Not pc but in reality a knee in the nuts up a dark alley had far more effect than all the form filling, box ticking with HR, not a popular view but true!

Have a look at the ACAS website, you can call them up and they will help word an email to management / HR deoartment - its free and they are really good. Shd won't lose her job and its good for everyone to call out this sort of patriarchal bullshit x

There is no point in sugar coating this, if you work in a pub and the manager is a cunt to you, you are fucked
if everyone folds and lets him then maybe....if everyone stands up to him he is fucked

Large pub chain with HR department. They have an obligation towards their staff. Obviously not the police, weird suggestion?

if you work in a pub and the manager is a cunt to you, you are fucked
hard to get staff in hospitality these days, if he gets a bad name and no one wants to work for him he is fucked, he's not the one with the power

I agree, I was suggesting she walks out and gets a job somewhere decent instead.

Staying in this job and hoping her manager turns into a nice person is a fool’s errand.

Would people just fuck OFF with the 'rise above'/ 'pub environment, what do you expect?' bullshit.

Is it really beyond their wit that actually no, make this misogynistic crap have consequences and things will eventually change.

Don't ask 18 year old women to have the confidence to challenge grown men in the moment. Don't make young women the monitors of male behaviour. Protect them with employment laws that mean men can't act this way towards female employees, protect them by making it so that sexist, inappropriate men lose their privilege to drink in these establishments. Make it socially unacceptable for men to act in this way.

I agree with this.

The group have a corporate reputation to maintain and equality and sexual harassment laws and polices to comply with. The days of protecting a rubbish manager are over with the risk of a tribunal and/or social media outing.

The power is in your DD hands.

Empower and support her to put in a quick and simple report via their HR system.

She doesn’t need to have to justify her shocked / speechless / distressed response in that moment (which is normal and natural).

It’s not for her the 18 year old female victim of humiliating sexual harassment by a group of posturing older males to be ready with some witty / assertive repose.

The manager was well OOO and needs consequences.

@TrentCrimm you said it better than me.

If the legislation, policies and processes are there then we should use them.

Staying in this job and hoping her manager turns into a nice person is a fool’s errand
but if he wants his pub to be staffed then he'll have to at least act like a nice person

I'm not one for the police, I'd prefer the licencee to lose their licence. As not a fit and proper person to hold one.

*reposte - not repose

That's sexual harrassment by creating an uncomfortable atmosphere for her. If the income isn't essential to, I would encourage her to leave and look for work elsewhere where she can be treated with greater respect. This may not be uncommon in pubs but that doesn't mean it's acceptable and employers have to learn that, and the only way this will change is if we keep underlining that it's unacceptable.

It is true the OPs DD job may be fucked, and besides she may not want to work there anymore anyway.

But reporting the sleazeball manager is a clear Fuck You Too she can do to him that will affect him..HR will have to investigate it and it will be on his employee record.

If HR doesn’t take it seriously, then she can still resign and easily not have to work her notice given the circumstances.

Then the next woman he harasses, if she reports as well, then HR might take it seriously.

A HR may ignore a first report, but they won’t ignore repeated reports. Her reporting may not help her, but they may help her replacement or the one after.

But it all depends on women reporting these men to work, if it doesn’t help her, it will eventually help another victim of his down the line.

girls should have classes on how to calmly & confidently face down these rancid old predators

No they fucking shouldn't.

The MEN are the problem. The MEN need teaching, not the 'girls'