Daughter embarrassed by sexual gesture at work

[G00d0mens]

I’m posting as I’m unsure if I have unrealistic expectations of society in general or if I am actually being unreasonable. Mumsnet has been a great help in the past.

Last night I got a text from my daughter to say that she felt very humiliated and wanted to come home (she works in our local pub).

She was shaking a cocktail and saw a manager make a juggling gesture with his hands (clearly a boob related gesture) to some customers who said « Don’t stop » when she stopped. She is a young 18 and has since said she felt very ashamed and angry after what had happened.

I did go down but she was talking to the boss and trying to sort it out and wanted to see out her shift. She was keen to know what actions would be taken as a result. For context, she is on a zero hour contract and worried about losing her job, which she loves in general.

She has gone in today but has said that it isn’t going well. I feel torn as I want to do what she wants but also can’t forget that when I was her age similar had happened to me. Probably to a lot of us? I was too embarrassed and ashamed to tell anyone (thought I would be blamed).

I thought she could take out a grievance if nothing is sorted but wondered as well -AIBU - she works behind a bar and this is to be expected? How sad if it is - I thought we were better as a society.

Advice please - she doesn’t want to lose her job but is also quite upset.

Thanking you all in advance.

Their employment rights are the same as everyone else's.

If you felt grossed out so long ago, why should OP's DD still be expected to tolerate it now?

Is the manager the named person as licencee? The one whose name appears above the door of the pub.

If so, and especially if not an isolated incident and no action is taken, then perhaps whoever grants the licence should be made aware.

I kind of think its part and parcel of the territory. Maybe she's too young for that environment at 18. However I do think.as.a manager they have overstepped professional boundaries and a grievance procedure is warranted, as for the punters it's to be expected as they dont have them professional boundaries to adhere to

If I was in HR I wouldn’t deal with you as you are not the employee. She needs to deal with it herself.

Is there other kinds of harassment you think is acceptable in a pub? White people making monkey noises at a Black employee for example?

Actually the employer is vicariously liable for sexual harassment by the customers. They have a duty legally to prevent that from happening so no it’s not ok that the customers did this. 🙄

She should definitely make a formal complaint, OP. Perhaps you could help her to draft it? She has protection from being sacked over sexual harassment from day one, it doesn't matter that she has a ZHC.

It's disgusting. Those middle aged men are animals for doing that to an 18yo girl.

But I doubt anything will be done - it'll be denied, or they'll say she misunderstood or they'll get rid of her anyway for spurious reasons. I would get her to look for another job. She shouldn't have to. But it's the best way out of it.

This is why men have been getting away with sexual harassment for years.

I'm so sorry this has happened to your DD OP, I completely disagree with telling her to move on.

If it were just sad customers , I would have just moved on but the fact it was a manager doing it, no I wouldn't let that go.

Absolute bs is it part and parcel of the territory. And even if it is that does not excuse the behaviour. Its not to be expected, or something that should be tolerated. It may happen but the managers duty is to protect their employees from sexual harassment, they should be kicked out from the pub

She should contact HR. I would help her draft the email

Have they got CCTV? A lot of the big chain pubs have and HR could have a look.

On a scale of expected standards of behaviour in an alcohol fuelled environment like a pub this seems pretty low down on the sexual harassment scale. I would imagine far worse can be expected in future than just a manager making a juggling gesture and a few drunk customers saying don't stop. So e people are made for bar work but it's certainly not for the easily offended. Wait til the bar stools and pint glasses start flying through the air.

As it's a National chain, she should put her complaint in writing to HR.

There is something really unpleasant about a middle aged male manager drawing customer's attention to an 18 year old employee's breasts and egging on his revolting "mates". I imagine he is married too - they always seem to be and think they are so funny. HR is probably your daughter's best bet but remembering that they work for the company's interests not your daughter's.

I actually think you can go there, with your dd and talk to the manager. Yes, she’s 18, but that’s still young to deal with this rubbish.
Try to remain calm and be there as back up.

No, you don’t. You help her in a practical way to be a grown up. You don’t treat her like a child and involve yourself. She isn’t learning any life lessons when you’re hovering.

That doesn’t make it right - you’re justifying sexually inappropriate behaviour from a manager - someone who is supposed to ensure a safe working environment. It’s not acceptable. It wasn’t acceptable 30 years ago when I worked in a bar. I wish I’d reported all the groping and grasping then but I too was scared I’d lose my job. It’s a rotten, degrading, embarrassing, thing to happen to someone and it absolutely should be reported.

It's sexual harassment from her manager in her workplace. She must report it.
Otherwise, what next, where's the line? He decides to grab her breasts to make a juggling gesture?
She and everyone else is entitled to work without fear and humiliation.

The manager would be well within their rights to refuse to discuss it with your mum or dad there.

I would expect a manager to behave professionally, not like a sex pest. How the customers behave is a separate matter.

It's completely unacceptable in this day and age and I think she'll feel better if she does go through the process of reporting it. While you can't do it for her, she'll benefit from your moral support and dealing with it herself is one of those important 'life lessons' on the road to maturity.
That said, we also need to raise children/ humans who can put things into perspective and be resilient. Being sexually harassed is unacceptable, but we also need to learn assertiveness and how to handle ourselves, or even instantly call people out when they do something like this. Would it be worth asking what she has learned from this and what she feels she might do next time if something like this happened again?
Poor thing - it's not nice when it happens. Stupid, stupid men.

I'm sorry this happened to her. It doesn't matter if you are an astronaut, plumber or barmaid, sexual harrassment is still sexual harrassment. It's probably in your daughter's favour that it is a large chain company as they will likely have structured procedures in place for dealing with grievances. She should definitely inform HR or a higher manager outside her direct branch of her grievance. Is she part of a union?

She was shaking a cocktail and saw a manager make a juggling gesture with his hands (clearly a boob related gesture) to some customers who said « Don’t stop » when she stopped. She is a young 18 and has since said she felt very ashamed and angry after what had happened.

She has nothing to be ashamed about and needs to turn that into pure anger.
The manager has just sexually harassed her at work, that’s gross misconduct. She definitely should file a grievance with HR on this because he not only sexually harassed her, he did it in front of customers and was encouraging them to join in!

Yeah it happened all the time when I was her age and wasn’t even considered sexual harassment then but it was always wrong and thankfully we have laws in place to start getting shit like this to stop. We had to move on, but that’s not good advice now.

So, file a grievance and I’d put in there that this manager is not to be working the same shifts she does from here on out. He should be kept well away from her.

Being sexually harassed is unacceptable, but we also need to learn assertiveness and how to handle ourselves, or even instantly call people out when they do something like this. Would it be worth asking what she has learned from this and what she feels she might do next time if something like this happened again?

I don’t think there is any “right” reaction or way to “handle ourselves” short of remembering to not physically assault the motherfucker. She’s the victim here, whatever she feels in the moment 100% valid. The only thing to learn imho is men like that are shit and if possible-report, report, report.

I think beyond that it’s worthwhile to make sure a young woman knows it’s not her fault, she has nothing to be ashamed of, her anger is totally justified, and she’s not alone.