Daughter embarrassed by sexual gesture at work

[G00d0mens]

I’m posting as I’m unsure if I have unrealistic expectations of society in general or if I am actually being unreasonable. Mumsnet has been a great help in the past.

Last night I got a text from my daughter to say that she felt very humiliated and wanted to come home (she works in our local pub).

She was shaking a cocktail and saw a manager make a juggling gesture with his hands (clearly a boob related gesture) to some customers who said « Don’t stop » when she stopped. She is a young 18 and has since said she felt very ashamed and angry after what had happened.

I did go down but she was talking to the boss and trying to sort it out and wanted to see out her shift. She was keen to know what actions would be taken as a result. For context, she is on a zero hour contract and worried about losing her job, which she loves in general.

She has gone in today but has said that it isn’t going well. I feel torn as I want to do what she wants but also can’t forget that when I was her age similar had happened to me. Probably to a lot of us? I was too embarrassed and ashamed to tell anyone (thought I would be blamed).

I thought she could take out a grievance if nothing is sorted but wondered as well -AIBU - she works behind a bar and this is to be expected? How sad if it is - I thought we were better as a society.

Advice please - she doesn’t want to lose her job but is also quite upset.

Thanking you all in advance.

Absolutely disgusting behaviour from her manager. Completely unacceptable. I would help your daughter draught a copy of the incident to HR and submit it. Not doing anything means perverts like this carry on harassing women. The manager needs some training. Male managers should not be jestering to customers about jiggling his staff's breasts. Gross.

She should walk out. This is what a lot of middle-aged men working in “old man” pubs are like unfortunately, and they don’t want things to change. Weatherspoons, if that is the chain she works for, unfortunately has that sort of culture baked into it from the owner downwards. It won’t change.

She can find a job in a decent pub with pleasant customers if she had experience - hospitality is crying out for recent workers. I’ve had far more “nice” bar jobs than shit ones, but the shit ones were all in old man pubs run by dinosaurs who thought Benny Hill was a how-to guide.

Thank you for all the comments.

My 18 year old self didn’t know what to do and told no-one. Consequently, hated work.

I’ll discuss next steps with her tonight. I’ll support but everything will obviously come from her.

Thanks again.

I think this is spot on.

@mamabear715 I must admit that when I first read the Op, I agreed with you felt a bit incredulous that @G00d0mens ‘s DD was so shocked by this. I now realise that this is just my social conditioning.

I’m a 50 year old professional who has not been in this kind of environment for decades (as an employee) but still part of my felt it was somehow par for the course.

This thread has been quite an eye opener in terms of my own attitudes. On the one had I think that sexual harassment is utterly terrible and am fiercely defensive of my DDs but on the other hand, the Op made me regress into a sort of depressing state of acceptance as this sort of things was so normalised when I was younger.

I truly hope that the world is changing for young women and that the outrage on this thread becomes the new normal.

I know what you mean as I was a cocktail waitress once. Getting £20 notes stuffed down my cleavage was so conflicting because you’re like wow, that’s a great tip and ugh I want to puke in his face how dare he stick his hand down my top. But you had to smile and go thank you sir, anything else I can get for you? And then listen to the jokes “oh you could polish me off” or “I’d like a bit of that sugar…” , “got anything as tasty as you?” and so on that was all called “friendly banter”. The leaning over to look up your skirt. The hand on your back to pull you in as you pass by with another order….the things we had to put up with to earn a crust.

I think she should report it. Years ago when I was her age and younger there were few HR/sexual harassment rules (me and others got worse sexual harassment) and I’m pleased that there are rules.

I do think you should help her draft an email but don’t speak to her boss about it.

However, be prepared for the manager to minimise/dismiss it.

This is absolutely not ok and even though it might have been deemed acceptable and part of life back years ago, it should not be considered ok now. Imagine if someone did this in an office setting? We’d all be saying straight to HR. I’d encourage her to report this and let the process lead the way.

A million years ago when I worked behind a bar a regular customer called me a deaf cunt because I hadn’t heard his order. I told the landlady it was my last shift because nobody spoke to me like that. She made him apologise which astonished me because he spent a lot of money there. It also made me realise how good I was at my job. Perhaps your daughter should resign @G00d0mens, the reaction will be interesting.

My 21 Yr old DD won’t step foot in a spoons anymore if she’s alone. She says she is always, always harassed in there. She used to go there a lot as a 16yr old in sixth form with classmates as it was cheap and a way to hang out between classes (they often had 2-3hr gaps)…but I think now these men know she is definitely not underage they’re much more willing to be disgusting and harass her.

I’m going to go against the grain a bit here like @mamabear715 and whilst I think it’s seedy and unprofessional behaviour from her boss, I think it’s better for your daughter to then turn the other cheek and rise above it - she’s in a pub, realistically shit like that is going to happen.
It’s not right, but she’s going to have to toughen up and call out whoever does it at the time. By all means, complain to HR, but I do think your daughter would be better to return and to speak to her boss and tell him exactly how it made her feel.

Have to say I agree with this. It's only part of the territory because people tolerate it. Sexual harassment is no more acceptable than racism. Most people both male and female would think it was icky. The manager should have put a stop to.it not encouraged it. Your daughter should complain but it may end up being difficult for her to continue working with this manager

That totally gross and 100% sexually harassment and intimidation.

she needs to write a written complaint to her manager and take a witness to any meeting first and document in that hoe it made her fe feel then contact HR as well.

I wouldn’t want to work there anymore and I personally would resign in writing saying why and copying in HR. It’s a disgusting environment to work in and I wouldn’t want to do it. Plenty of other jobs with employers who don’t do this

Head office will take it seriously.

Make sure you act fast especially if where she was stood in the bar was covered by CCTV, CCTV overwrites after a while

Turn the other cheek and rise above it or toughen up and call them out?

You do realise this was her manager? Fuck that shit.

Excellent point @Clymene - this behaviour is only tolerated because we allow it to be.

We have thankfully stamped out overt racism (in most cases), making jokes about disable people is not acceptable now. We shouldn’t be telling women that they should just shut up and deal with misogyny or blatant sexual harassment, if we all stand up against it, it will eventually become socially unacceptable.

What a depressing thread with posters dismissing the sexual harassment of an 18 year old by a manager!

Lots of good advice on here OP - hopefully your DD will feel supported and learn from your support that women no longer have to accept sexual harassment in or out of the workplace - no matter how many creepy men insist they do.

For those who refer to historic behaviour and somehow sexual harassment being OK, the historic response could have been for her dad to go in and raise hell/threaten the manager with violence, or give the pervert manager a good kicking. Would you prefer that?

Depressing read

Oh and her boss already knows exactly how he made her feel that’s part of the harassment

That's completely unacceptable and I hope your daughter feels like she can challenge it.

Ugh. ‘Rise above it’, ‘ask your daughter what she has learned?’, ‘just move on.’ There’s so many things the 18 year old female employee should apparently do to deal with the sexual harassment in her workplace, by her manager. It’s as though there are some environments where men are allowed to sexually harass women, how convenient for them.

If she's 18, an adult, the surely she should be dealing with it, not you, that's what being an adult means.

Or your strapping Royal Marine boyfriend with his shipmates…..😍

Seriously though, those were bad old days, not good old days.

Your daughter has to fight for her rights. It won’t help her much you go and fight for her… but since every complaint has to be made in writing, nothing stops you from help her with any formal communication. Good luck.