To think the anyone but England mentality is cringe?

[SolitaryMind]

I’m Scottish, I was brought up to be anti English, SNP mad household, despite having English grandparents. I’ve always thought it made no sense, England is part of the UK like we are. I now have an English dp who is step- parent to my child, I support England in football as does my dc, every match my social media is filled with support for any country playing against England, I don’t get it! Can someone explain the logic to me, I can’t be the only one surely!

There is definitely a jealousy element but that's not at the root of it, it just fuels what is already there. I feel quite sorry for anyone with an ABE attitude these days. It's like that reaction the Wales team had when England went out to Iceland a few years ago. It was pathetic.

They really, really wouldn’t have.

As I said already, why not have a go at reading the calculation behind it?

How strange that you are holding England accountable for you disagreeing where they stand in world rankings and suggesting it's someone a conspiracy.

Yet you're not bitter in the slightest...

Those who are pleased that England lost because of the football hooligans then spare a thought for Parisians where the French hooligans were rampaging most of the night and 74 arrests were made.
Hooliganism is awful but it’s not confined to the English.

Reading through this thread would help people understand the ABE sentiment. Some posters have literally given very fair responses and reasons, about historical relationship, media coverage, fan behaviour. Whilst other posters have just dismissed them and told them that's not what they think at all, they are in fact just jealous.

Why even bother engaging in the conversation if you're not interested in other peoples perspectives? @AuntiesWoodenLeg posted a brilliant comment explaining the media coverage from the POV of a Scot if anyone is actually interested in gaining some understanding, but I don't think many of you are.

MatronicO6, there are plenty of Scots on this thread embarrassed by the juvenile ABE trope, me included . It's childish. The Scottish press are as nauseating when Scottish teams qualify. There's plenty of football violence around 'old firm' matches.

I suppose the difference between the good natured 'ribbing' surrounding rugby and the 'arrogance' surrounding football is just class based - those working class oiks with the round ball.....

@DownNative the Scottish did have an alliance with France which gave dual nationality until 1907 I think when Westminster stopped it.
Westminster are always the trouble between the Scots and English.
Also read up on the Welsh not. The English barbaric treatment of Welsh speaking school children in the 19thc.

My dgs is Welsh, I supported Wales this time around and then England and now France although it would be fun if Morocco won the World Cup.

I've only scanned the thread, but noticed the continuous conflating of Ireland and Northern Ireland. Given all the history involved in that, those attitudes might be something of a clue.

From an Irish point of view, the history beneath our countries is long, bloody and sad. These days things are better on the whole which is wonderful. But I think a bit of light-hearted ABE in the football is excusable, you can let us have that one.

Any yes yes a thousand times yes to @AuntiesWoodenLeg 's excellent post.

I'm Scottish and married to an Englishman and love England. Can't support the team because it's rammed down our throats that ITS COMING HOME. Sick of football on TV all the time and sick of the constant speculation that England are going to win everything. The difference with Scotland is we are always surprised when we do well in any sport but England is always surprised when they lose. And they always lose on penalties.

Oh I realise that and I am in no way ABE myself. But it's the fact that when some reasons have been cited people have dismissed them and essentially told them that's not what they think. I actually thought the ABE was jesting in nature.

I offered the explanation it may be the way fans can conduct themselves based on my own personal experience, which actually is rugby based. It's the only time Ireland and England meet competitively regularly. Things that I have experienced whilst watching Rugby with English fans
-called a fucking gypsy
-had YOU'RE SHIT shouted at me repeatedly
-told fuck off back to potato land
-a group of men standing up in front of the screen and singing god save the queen when Ireland was being awarded the trophy

These are just things I remember as they were so absurd and they all happened in Irish pubs! As you said Rugby is meant to be the tamer of the sports fan wise.

@SnowlayRoundabout it really would t have been rammed down our throats, at least not in the same way. If Scotland were in that position last night the BBC broadcasters would have been saying 'In Scotland' or 'the Scottish team' not 'here' and 'our team', that's the difference when it comes to the media. Plus there wouldn't have been that flipping song chanted out every ten seconds

If you're calling Ireland, as opposed to NI, a home nation, I think that's part of the problem. They aren't, and don't see themselves, as a home nation of the UK. It's quite ignorant to refer to them in that way. And I'd Futher imagine if I were Welsh or Scottish, I would think that the expectation of reciprocal support when they aren't asking for it is a bit irritating.

I’m really happy that England have been knocked out. England are unbearable when it comes to football! They are also mediocre!
The fans (a significant minority) are brain dead morons, who are hated all over the world.

The English centric media are obsessed with England, and consistently talk about them even when they’re not playing.
They haven’t beaten anyone of note, and yet the stupid fans had them bringing home the trophy!

The racism and misogyny from the fans, and the it’s coming home stupid song played on loop!
Well it’s not!! Hurrah!

yes, the women’s team I’m happy to support. Completely agree with everything else you said. My NDN was in Tenerife recently and
experienced the ‘English fans’ in all their glory.

Looking forward to watching France and Morocco. The atmosphere will be electric.

Do people actually believe that England fans really think it’s coming home? There is most definitely a sense of satire in both the song and the sentiment. We like to be optimistic, but most people I know were pretty confident France would win last night.

I’m Scottish in England and have never bought into the ABE game, until yesterday.

My friend lives in Scotland with an English and Scottish parent, Irish and Brazilian grandparents. For football they’ve always supported Brazil, despite parents arguing over if they should be bought an England or Scotland shirt.

I couldn’t believe the digs aimed at my friend on social media, in group chats and mentioned to me in the pub yesterday about Brazil crashing out on Friday! The arrogance of these England fans who thought they now has an easy run to the trophy, it was great Morocco went through because they’d be easy to beat etc. I felt myself start to support France just so these people could feel like arses.

My friend didn’t respond to any of their nonsense but I called them this morning to describe the devastation in the pub last night and oh how they laughed!

I’m probably still not ABE, rather Anyone But Who These Idiots support but I bet I’m not the only one.

The young players are worth supporting imo. This team seem good, but Saka and Bellingham are particularly so (probably others I’ve not mentioned)

Women’s team are great

People feel what they do, re hating them as in pp but what can you do.

The point is that was a narrow reading of history. The Treaty of Edinburgh, according to historians, ended the alliance with France from 1560 onwards. From this point onwards, Scotland was a Protestant nation whereas France was a Catholic one. Scotland turned towards England increasingly from then on which culminated in:

1. a Scottish King uniting the Crowns of England and Scotland into one

2. the Union of the Parliaments of England and Scotland

3. although begun by England some time before, the territory of the British Empire was very significantly increased by Scottish actors.

From the creation of the UK, Scotland hasn't had the sovereign power involved with conferring citizenship. Westminster did, continued to allow it and finally did what many countries in the early 20th century was doing....formalising citizenship as well as international law and defining it all more narrowly than in the past. This was a major political issue in 1907 Scotland and is certainly never talked about here in Scotland either.

Additionally, it was NOT uncommon for countries in the 19th century not treating certain groups of peoples great. The UK is very much part of the European norm of the time.

But Scotland has NOT been in an alliance with France for centuries. That is a reality.

Personally, I support all the UK home nations in international tournaments if they are in them - England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Additional to supporting Brazil and Portugal as well. But Northern Ireland generally comes first!

No i'm not bitter, why on earth would anyone be bitter?

England and football are a source of great humour, Whatsapp and FB now full of hilarious jokes about Kane, rugby, lost/ found footballs and England.

I just don't get how teams with very strong, overall, pedigrees, Germany France or even Croatia are ranked similar or well below England.

I very much wish England could do well but they can't, unlike so many sports where we do genuinely lead the world, football just isn't one of them.

If you can workout out the fifa ranking formula, be my guest but even fifa are reviewing it, yet again - it does have its (expert) critics you know.

I'm Scottish living in England. I don't support another team but I'd generally prefer the other team to win. My reasons are:
They're the biggest rival. Usually people don't want your biggest rival to win. Either internationally or locally. I've never heard Celtic supporters saying they want Rangers to win something they've been knocked out of for example

The relentless piss taking. Yes I know we are shit at football thanks

The biggest one for me is the press. Its relentless. It's the endless comparisons with 1966 like 'in that year we wore this type of shirt and scored this in our first match, so this year ITS COMING HOME'. And then as soon as England is out, no one seems bothered.

And lastly the fact that people continually ask me about it. They hear my accent, and ask who I'm supporting. I'd never dream of bringing it up. I usually make a joke or say no one. And then I get pressed 'oh but if you had to pick someone, who would it be', and if I say the other team I get a load of 'that's so shit, I'd support scotland' comments. It's none of your business who I (in my head only) support. Its hypothetical that they themselves would support scotland if england were out. I've never heard any english person say they would support Germany over a south American team because they are close neighbours and until recently were in a political union. And it completely ignores all the (some justified and historic, many not) political issues between scotland and England. It's just a bit deluded and arrogant to me and I dont actually see why anyone cares, when I'm jumping up and down cheering when another team score. People can support who they want, it's a game

The expectation that we must support the imperial power England is rather irritating. ABE is a joke that expresses the frustrations in Scotland with the larger richer next door neighbour who treats us as other, refusing to recognise our language and culture as different and expects us to get in line and support them. Why do the English care so much who the Scots support in football? We don't care if you support us or not, in fact it feels rather patronising to be told 'but you should be grateful, we support you'. Except of course in the 70s and 80s the English didn't support Scotland when we were in the World Cup and they weren't. And lets not forget they had such dreadful football hooligans English teams were banned from international competitions. 'Football's coming home' was about finally being allowed to host an international tournament after dealing with the decades of violence.

FWIW I don't actively support Wales either, I have no issue with Wales, had a lovely holiday there, but have no connection with the country so beyond the usual 'support the underdog' feelings that apply whenever a low ranking country plays a higher ranking country I'm not at all bothered how they do. But I've never had a Welsh person say 'You must support us'.

That doesn't make any sense. We refuse to recognise Scotland's language and culture as different but do treat them as "other"?

And as far as criticising England fans for noisily celebrating, what do you think football fans in other countries do? Look at the scenes in Morocco after they won yesterday!

Yeah, the more matches a team plays and wins, the more points they get which goes towards rankings.

This includes international friendlies.

All international football federations know this which is why there can be a lot of friendlies for some teams and not others. And there are more of these than tournament games.

^^This 100%

I would suggest you also brush up on your languages and not look for oppresion, the Germans/Spanish/Brazilians/Dutch/Italians etc etc all have anthems about winning the world cup, they all know it is just an anthem that has taken hold on the terraces, the only people who take it litterally are the ABE crowd and those who don't really watch football and think all 'other' supporters are respectful, it is like the last Euros where people where calling out racism among england supporters (which turned out to be some random in the middle east) and support Italy where bananas are regulalry thrown onto the pitch against black players

Good points. The Coming Home song clearly says that we haven't won for decades but it hasn't stopped us dreaming. Hardly offensive or claiming we're the best to be saying we haven't won for so long right there in the song!