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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the anyone but England mentality is cringe?

600 replies

SolitaryMind · 10/12/2022 21:22

I’m Scottish, I was brought up to be anti English, SNP mad household, despite having English grandparents. I’ve always thought it made no sense, England is part of the UK like we are. I now have an English dp who is step- parent to my child, I support England in football as does my dc, every match my social media is filled with support for any country playing against England, I don’t get it! Can someone explain the logic to me, I can’t be the only one surely!

OP posts:
Florenz · 11/12/2022 01:18

Far too much of Scottish identity is based on not being England. I honestly don't know what would happen if they became a completely independent country.

ExcuseeeeMe · 11/12/2022 01:20

flflflf · 11/12/2022 01:13

Get over it scotland. watch scottish commentary if it bothers you so much. I'd support scotland in an equivalent match with scotland in it.

There is no option to watch the World Cup matches without English commentary . The ignorance

Oceanswimming · 11/12/2022 01:22

Florenz · 11/12/2022 01:18

Far too much of Scottish identity is based on not being England. I honestly don't know what would happen if they became a completely independent country.

Are you Scottish?

VivienneDelacroix · 11/12/2022 01:24

I'm happy to support the England Women's team, but the behaviour of some (a large enough number) supporters of the men's team makes it impossible for me to ever want them to win. I want them out as early as possible so I don't have to avoid shouting men in the streets, listen to my neighbours getting drunk and playing that bloody awful song on loop, and seeing awful celebration scenes which often are just mindless vandalism or intimidation.
So yes, I support ABE in men's football.
Everything else I'll happily support them.

I'm really happy with today's outcome - between France and Morocco I'll be so pleased with whoever wins.

JaninaDuszejko · 11/12/2022 01:29

Wearegoingtoneedabiggerboat · 10/12/2022 21:59

We are in Scotland at the moment and were in a restaurant ( use that term loosely as it was Nando’s) when France scored and the whole place erupted in cheers, including the staff. I did ask the guy who took out plates away when Scotland s next match in the tournament was. Her wasnt impressed but if you can’t take it don’t dish it out.

Because of the 'Auld Alliance' lots of Scotland fans support France so that's not really the best example.

DwpDwp · 11/12/2022 01:37

Welsh, football fan.

Most England fans never back Wales, and our team is usually just mocked.

Back in 2016 when we qualified for the European Championship for the first time, we made it to the semi finals but got very limited coverage from the supposedly-British press because
England got knocked out in the quarter finals,
so the tournament seemed to be over as far as the media was concerned.

I’m not an ‘ABE’ supporter but I think English fans whining about the fans of the other home nation sides not supporting them are largely a bunch of whining hypocrites.

Dibbydoos · 11/12/2022 01:43

No idea why everyone's talking about football!

The issue OP is historic, how the English monarchy treated the Scots. Why Mary wasn't on the throne etc.

Scottish aren't the only nation who hate the English because of how the monarchy or English people treated them.

DwpDwp · 11/12/2022 01:46

Dibbydoos · 11/12/2022 01:43

No idea why everyone's talking about football!

The issue OP is historic, how the English monarchy treated the Scots. Why Mary wasn't on the throne etc.

Scottish aren't the only nation who hate the English because of how the monarchy or English people treated them.

Because the OP is about football.

Bigspender19 · 11/12/2022 01:51

I can see at least 3 members on this thread who hate England, yet are regulars on the racists threads. Funny how they are the ones normally calling out racism 🤔

Bigspender19 · 11/12/2022 01:53

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 11/12/2022 00:25

Which is why we shouldn't be in union tbh. England should be separate and they can do English things, Scotland; Scottish things, Wales; Welsh things and Northern Ireland; Northern Irish things.

The absolute arrogance of the English thinking "well we're the biggest so shut up and do what we want" is exactly why nobody in the world likes you.

Don't ever have the nerve to defend racism again when your bigotry is on full display.

Womencanlift · 11/12/2022 01:56

I was born in England to Scottish parents, grew up in Scotland, now live in England with an English DP who knew full well I would support France tonight. All good humoured as was the group chats after the game that had a mix of Scots, Welsh and English in them. Good banter from both sides

As others have said the current team are far better than the era of Beckham and Rooney in terms of how they conduct themselves however the fans and media (I am looking at you especially Good Morning BRITAIN!!) are still the same and will never change, hence why the other home nations are not enthusiastic about an England campaign

Rugby is very different and I will always support England over France and Italy. I wonder why that is… oh yes the fans and the media are not as smug when it’s rugby

I can’t say any much more than @AuntiesWoodenLeg ’s fabulous post but will say that people saying that national football is not the same as team football are kidding themselves. Football rivalry (not jealousy) is the same regardless of the tournament

Bigspender19 · 11/12/2022 02:01

Seems xenophobia is fair game when it comes to England. Hypocrites.

ExcuseeeeMe · 11/12/2022 02:08

Bigspender19 · 11/12/2022 02:01

Seems xenophobia is fair game when it comes to England. Hypocrites.

Not supporting Englands football team is xenophobic?

DownNative · 11/12/2022 04:25

Daydreamer12345 · 10/12/2022 21:36

Presumably you live in the UK so what would you expect?

I’ve always cheered for Scotland/Ireland/Wales (when not playing England obviously) I just don’t get why you wouldn’t.

Weird attitude

And Northern Ireland?

We're a completely separate team from the Republic of Ireland....🙄

DownNative · 11/12/2022 04:32

Dibbydoos · 11/12/2022 01:43

No idea why everyone's talking about football!

The issue OP is historic, how the English monarchy treated the Scots. Why Mary wasn't on the throne etc.

Scottish aren't the only nation who hate the English because of how the monarchy or English people treated them.

Rubbish. For one thing, this thread is about football! 🤦‍♂️

And James I of Scotland and VI of England was........Scottish himself. He united the Crowns of England and Scotland as well as ordered the creation of the Union Jack which was named after him (its not a naval flag, but a ROYAL flag)!

The Monarchy certainly isn't and wasn't all English. Its a British Monarchy.

Lastly, the ABE mentality is often Anglophobia dressed up and excused as "banter". It's not right.

DownNative · 11/12/2022 04:42

Stevie6 · 11/12/2022 00:16

Andy Murray is a great example of this!

No Andy Murray isn’t a good example of "Scottish when losing, British when winning"! That's a myth often used to justify Anglophobia.

www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/24/andy-murray-scottish-british-tennis

DownNative · 11/12/2022 05:17

AuntiesWoodenLeg · 10/12/2022 23:30

To the PP asking why there isn't a UK team - national teams are based on countries and the UK is not a country. England, Scotland and Wales are countries within the UK state. Northern Ireland is treated as a country but I won't delve into the politics of that here.

There are only three countries in the world that do not have control of their own broadcasting - Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Regional TV channels in some other countries have more control over their output than the miniscule broadcasting freedoms allowed in these three countries. This means that for most major broadcasts, we have no choice but to participate through the UK broadcaster which is understandably anglocentric.

In England you have no idea how it feels to have everything you view filtered through the lens of another country, or to rarely hear your own accent on TV unless its a token gesture, or for your country's news to always take second or third place. Imagine if you were in an alliance with the USA and all your news featured America first, read by Americans, most programming came from the US and all England could produce on the tiny budgets they were permitted was "local" drama, local newsrooms where the cardboard screens wobbled because they were so cheap, and your news was reduced to "man finds pie at bus stop" or a feature on the Norfolk Broads because only USA news was "real" news. Imagine if the only education news you heard was about US education, reducing your understanding of how your own system operated. That's about where we three countries are most of the time.

So back to football. It would be just sublime if the people of these three countries could watch a sporting competition through their own lens, hear what their own commentariat were thinking, considering their own prospects and perspectives, and not just hear England, England, England. We'd have our own hyperbole, not yours. If we thought England were shit, no-hopers, we'd be free to say so in a hopefully constructive manner, not excluded completely if our team didn't qualify, or have presenters from the other country being polite about your team's non-existent chances for 5 minutes just to prove they're not biased before returning to what they really want to talk about - their own country's team.

You won something once, 56 years ago and you've been living on the glory of it ever since. "Two world wars, one world cup". How old are these victories? And you didn't even achieve the first two alone but it's still a chant anyway. In 2022.

If you won something again, how much more would we have to endure? So no, let's dash that idea before you get anywhere near the prize, then we've only got the same old mindless crowing to continue enduring.

The current England Team do seem like far more decent young men than the swaggering egotists of old, but I'm afraid the broadcasting situation and the loudest elements of your fanbase means that we really need you out as quickly as possible. Either that or our own broadcasting which would leave you free to pontificate into your own echo chamber to your heart's desire, and we can provide our own coverage in whatever form that may take. I think you'd find a very different attitude then.

For the record, I don't feel the need to support other countries just because we're in a union with them. I didn't support all the EU teams when we were members and I feel no more inclined to support fellow UK members' teams. I support France after Scotland because they are our oldest allies and they gave my grandparents French citizenship as they did for all Scots until Westminster cancelled that arrangement without consultation. I also support the Netherlands as I have some ancestors from there. I have no reason to support England, but every reason to wish we didn't have to hear about them constantly whenever they think they might win something.

Wrong - the UK is internationally recognised as a sovereign country by the EU, for example. And EU member states such as Germany and the Netherlands recognise Northern Ireland as a country too.

The reason why FIFA allow England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to continue to compete individually to this day is for historical reasons. And their contributions to the game.

England and Scotland played the first international football match. The penalty spot kick was invented in County Armagh, Northern Ireland.

The rules of international football were developed within the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland as it was then known.

And so on. FIFA has 20 members who are NOT recognised as independent sovereign countries, you know!

Scotland's allies for over 300 years has been England as well as Wales and Northern Ireland plus the ROI as it is today. Not France who were only after building their own power hence the conquest of England. 🙄

And Scotland has never had the power to give anyone any kind of citizenship! That's a power reserved to Westminster.

I presume you'll have ancestors from other parts of the British Isles too. If a Dutch ancestor is enough, so will other Home Nation ancestry. Hell, there's a Dutch connection with my hometown in Northern Ireland as well as a wider Dutch historical connection with Northern Ireland as well as England, Scotland and Wales! 🤦‍♂️

Seems more like an attempt to justify your ABE mentality.

magicthree · 11/12/2022 05:29

I'm not in the UK, and couldn't care less about football, but having just seen a large bunch of English supporters here on TV and hearing how cocky they were before the match might well go a long way towards explaining it.

themanwho · 11/12/2022 06:18

I meant in terms of neighbouring countries and size or power. Obviously none of them are actually brothers. They’re countries.

you’re right though, Ireland and Northern Ireland are different again to wales , Scotland and England

Moon22 · 11/12/2022 06:26

Agree it's really embarassing. "I'm ABE"- then explain what it stands for. I cringe every time.

Seymour5 · 11/12/2022 06:53

Willyoujustbequiet · 11/12/2022 00:24

Naw. As someone who is literally half n half and lives on the border.....more Scots are out and out racist to the English ( and indeed in general to other races) then the.English ever are the other way around.

I’m a born and bred Scot, DH moved to Scotland as a child, from England. Many years ago, but he still remembers the treatment he got at his first school there, quite shameful. He still has nieces and nephews in Scotland, one in particular who seems to have forgotten he had English grandparents, and is very much ABE. But not in a dryly humorous way like Andy Murray!

We live in the north of England, I have never in over forty years had a negative reaction to my Scottish accent. I’m not much of a fb fan, but I was supporting England last night, and felt sorry they lost. DH would have supported Scotland if they’d got through. Only when they play each other are we divided.

Coxspurplepippin · 11/12/2022 07:32

Stevie6 · 11/12/2022 00:16

Andy Murray is a great example of this!

If you'd read the thread you'd see there are a couple of links completely debunking this - some poor sod's actually fact checked and found out winning Andy Murray = British, losing Andy Murray = Scottish is not true. Or complete bollocks, whichever you favour. It's rubbish like this that pushes the ABE crap.

walkinginsunshinekat · 11/12/2022 07:34

DisneyPrincesss · 10/12/2022 23:21

🤷🏻‍♀️ by Fifa. Who I would assume know more than most of us, however there is a section on the website about the procedures. Perhaps you could provide some feedback about improvements?

Would that be the same corrupt fifa that gave the world cup to Qatar and also Russia?

It seems odd that the country that consistently wins major trophies and another one that knocked England out last time round and made the finals, are rated so lowly....

I'd like to know how England can justify a 4th place in the world rankings?

Trying2310 · 11/12/2022 07:40

@Ballsaque your friend has every right to call herself Irish if she is from Northern Ireland. I agree if she lives in England with kids born there it's a bit off touting the ABE narrative but on the other issue educate yourself before making stupid statements!

Maldedos · 11/12/2022 07:43

@walkinginsunshinekat
Rankings are based on International match results, even fifa can’t nobble that.
It follows the ELO rating system used in chess.
And Brazil were ranked first and are no longer in the World Cup.
Crostia are 12 th and could definitely win.
Its what makes it exciting, a team like Brazil are out and Morocco still in.

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