Told I was 'phobic' for not using pronouns!

[NewStartIn50s]

Asked for my preferred pronouns and I said ' I don't use them', pushed on what I use to refer to myself and I said I don't use on emails or when I introduce myself or at all. Apparently, if I use them I am showing inclusivity to others and being accepting. I'm not quite a dinosaur yet but why are these things forced on us. I don't have a beard (yet) and I think you can tell what I am/but does it really matter if you can't.

So AIBU

YANBU - don't have to use pronouns if you don't want to

YABU - you should state what your preferred pronouns are

As am I - and I'm armed (with science and a big gob) and dangerous . . .

I utterly refuse to engage with any of this white noise, wokery shite. If really pressed, I will announce that 'Goddess' is my preferred moniker.

Hear, hear.

I’ve always wanted someone to ask me mine!

I’d give a deadpan stare and say ‘Guess. Go on. I bet you get it right first go.’

I think I'm in love with you.

LOL!

To both of these comments.

Can I just mention - gender identity is NOT a protected characteristic.

Many people think it is.

Many would like it to be.

Many are determined to behave as though it is.

Many are determined to loudly proclaim that it is.

But it isn't.

SEX is, though.

It's becoming a grammatical nightmare. If someone has appropriated 'they' as their pro noun, then WTF do we now use as a plural? Would it be 'theys' 'thems' and 'thoses'???

Although, pronouncing that last one is a real fucker if you have a lisp.

You can also f*rt as much as you like!

Try she/her if you want to put an end to the drama.

SixCharactersinSearchofanAuthor · Yesterday 18:20

^This is one reason why: www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/what-happened-when-a-man-signed-work-emails-using-a-female-name-for-a-week_n_58c2ce53e4b054a0ea6a4066^

I've seen that before and it's pretty shocking. It's well known that when people know that they are dealing with a woman, they are likely to treat them less favourably - even other women!

Apologies if these have already been posted, there were too many posts to read all in one go...

But also - gender identity is a belief system. You're not asked to include your religious beliefs in your email sign off - why is gender identity treated differently?

sex-matters.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Pronouns-at-work-guide.pdf

"Can your employer require you to ‘state your pronouns’? There have been no legal cases about this. But we think not: employees are entitled to decline to take part in this ritual, and to be protected from discrimination, harassment and victimisation."

"If your employer (or your school or university) asks or encourages you to state your pronouns:

The simplest thing is to decline in a low-key manner. You do not need to explain why. Simply refrain from putting pronouns in your biography or your email signature and don’t announce them at meetings. If invited to, say ‘No thank you’ and if asked why, say something bland like ‘It is not a practice I follow’."

www.legalfeminist.org.uk/2020/07/19/pronouns-compulsion-and-controversy/

"In 2019, the Royal Society of Chemistry undertook an analysis of gender bias publishing in the chemical sciences. It recognised that biases were “subtle” and could be “inadvertent.” Women were invited to review less often, their work was more harshly received, their initial submissions more frequently rejected. These “small biases” led to a “significant cumulative effect.” "

"The RSC are not the only organisation to have done such research. Others have found similar results, and of course there are numerous articles spanning the last decade or more which find that CVs with a female name get poorer results than the same CV carrying a male name. CV writing services recommend against including gender on the CV – a practice which used to be common and is now recognised as archaic. Race is also a factor – although for now at least, nobody is suggesting we declare our race at the bottom of email signatures."

Yeh good one. Don't want to be cancelled.

Bother, formatting messed up. I'll try that again

I would much prefer that, rather than an obligation to use a person's specified pronouns regardless of how that may clash with our own identity and values, we had an option of polite gender neutral pronouns that can be used for anyone regardless of gender/sex.

I think having a language that requires us to label people as male and female to talk about them(1) at all, even just to say they(1)'ve put the bin out, is the thing that should have been tackled rather than keep the daft, outmoded sex-based language but let people choose which set they want to be referred to.

However even that isn't great because the historical suppression of female people in public life means gender neutral tends to read as male and therefore perpetuates the "default male" cultural fallacy instead of making sure female people are visible as well.

(1) As my natural use of it above shows, "they" historically fulfilled this role for people of unknown sex (not meaning specifically DSD but in situations where you speak of a hypothetical/general person like I have above) and could have been a good option for a polite "I don't need to flag a specific sex/gender in this context" pronoun, but has been hijacked for the specific identity of non-binary and therefore won't work, because someone can now be misgendered by "they". Illustrating yet again that this language is not, in fact, about being reasonable and kind, but about taking away any language that enables expression of concepts outside the ideology )

Try to read the whole thread to avoid looking like a numpty.

"Well, I'm Ted Cruz, and my pronoun is 'kiss my ass,'"

About sums up my views.

I have a question for any bi-lingual speakers. How does the pronoun thing work in, say French when nouns inherently have a gender ie. le chat and la table?

My pronouns are "I/me", somebody else would refer to me as "you"

Can't use she/her, it means I identify as a person of unspecified sex a womany mind.

Can't use they/them, it means I identify as a person of unspecified sex with a mind that is neither, or moves between, womany and man-y.

Can't use he/him, it means I identify as a person of unspecified sex with a man-y mind.

I am a person with a definite sex of female and a mind that is neither woman-y or man-y beyond the differences that were imposed on me through society's treatment and expectations of my sex (and which, incidentally, I experience as an external influence not an internal self).

What pronouns can I use please?

In Latin America I think they use x instead of o. Ie latinxs
In Spanish in Spain it's elles instead of ellos or ellas
Do some people on sm use @?
Like mi amig@ es de gener@ no binari'e'
😯

In Latin America I think they use x instead of o. Ie latinxs

Those who want to, yes. I bet the vast majority don't do this though.

I remember those days, too. I was regarded as a dangerous radical for using "Ms" in the late 70s.

I don't have a problem with using my pronouns, and can see that it can be useful (I work in an organisation with a lot of LGBTQI staff, and there are a couple of people I've seen around whose sex I truly could not determine, so it avoids giving offence.) And I'm not gender critical, so it's not a biggie for me.

Those who want to, yes. I bet the vast majority don't do this though.

Quite. Just like the vast majority of people here don't put their pronouns in their signature etc.

Why would someone be using a pronoun to my face and if they’re using it outside my earshot why would I care?

Has there ever been a word so widely written and used and discussed as ‘pronoun’ is today that was only ever used inside a classroom teaching English?

Too many self obsessed people around today.

Try she/her if you want to put an end to the drama.

No thanks.