To ask for your help in how to say this tomorrow morning?

[MyHeadIsRuined]

Relations between me and my in-laws are basically non-existent, but my husband has asked me to meet with them tomorrow and tell them how I feel, as a last chance.

They are difficult. They don't take criticism well, they will argue with any examples I give, they do not apologise, his mum will cry. If they even listen, his mum is likely to forget about it five minutes later and go back to what suits her... but I've said I'll try.

They were "okay" when we met, other than a bizarre insistence that they saw DH every week. They've got progressively worse. During lockdown, they kept appearing outside our window (an hour away!) to watch us, without saying anything until someone noticed they were there 🥴 When I was pregnant, they called all the time to shout at us that we were ruining it for them by not finding out what the baby was, or announcing it publicly. From 7 months pregnant, they hassled my hospital, which meant when their answer to whether I was there changed slightly (as I was), they turned up and DH had to leave me being prepared for a cat 1 C-section to get them to go away. They sent flowers signed from my dead parents. They drove around pubs to find where we were, and crashed a whole meal. There are SO many examples.

I don't want a relationship with them. I can see how their toxic nature has affected DH, and I don't want that around my son. His mum has proven that she can't be trusted with him; she won't listen to us, and she deliberately goes against what we say. I'm done with the 30 missed calls because DH hasn't answered his phone, the random visits, the constant pressure to see them. I think DH should go by himself; and when DS is older, he can go to if the in-laws have proven themselves to be trustworthy... but he says that's what they want, and he doesn't want to go without us, so I've said I'll try.

They have asked me to wipe the slate clean but followed this up by saying I have no right to say they can't see DS on Christmas Day (we're not with them this year) so I don't feel that they're actually going to listen to me... I'd put money on them agreeing, and then turning up to wherever they think we'll be anyway.

Where do I start? Do I even try?

DH needs to be told in no uncertain words that you can’t change people. What you can do is change how you react to them - (ie, establish firm boundaries or go NC because they’re fucked in the head.) Things are never going to be better because they are incapable of change. If he doesn’t put the work in, the he will be incapable of change too. This will probably mean that there will be permanent tension in your marriage - or you may eventually break up. It’s his call.

Hey all.

Small update; and request for a sense check/head wobble, please.

To be fair to DH, since Feb, they've only come up in conversation once - when his aunt messaged to say they were moving a family meal to our town, as his parents were already staying here that weekend, so it prevented them from zig-zagging around. We didn't know about the family meal, or his parents staying in our town. He has excused us from the meal without asking for input from me. We've got plans that weekend anyway; although not all weekend.

He did think about going to see them for Mother's Day, but didn't in the end. Again, I had nothing to do with that decision. He did get a message from his mum saying how much they miss him; and how old and tired they are. Nothing about me or DS. DH himself has at least noticed that they never mention missing or loving us.

I do think he'll go and see them, at some point.

I'm torn between asking him to talk to them honestly and giving very strict guidelines around any contact with me and DS; that there is a good chance they'd reject, but that I'd find easier to live with, like not turning up uninvited and not undermining our parenting choices, but I don't know if at this stage I should stick to that we are just NC, and DH can make his own call?

I don't want something to happen to them and for him to resent me. It's impossible to tell if she's being dramatic for effect; she often was during lockdown if she didn't feel we were suitably worried about her.

I look at DS sometimes and can't imagine not having any contact with him.

But the idea of trying to rebuild with them fills me with dread. We've tried so many times before. His mum seems absolutely unable to see anyone else's point of view, or care about anyone but herself. A bit of me has found a really deep peace in the truce... that they aren't contacting me, turning up, sending us stuff, contacting us at all. I don't have to worry about them guilting me or hurting DS or anything. Even DH has said how much nicer it is.

Any thoughts?

I think it’s really difficult. I think on balance it would be better for your DH to sort out his own relationship with them and reach a point where he is happy with that before you or your DS start getting involved. It sounds like they are trying to build bridges with him so maybe he should just focus on that, without trying to bring you and your DS into it- and make it clear to them that discussions about your DS are off the table for the time being.

Your husband is responsible for his relationship with his parents, not you. Try not to give them another thought, because they're not capable of being reasonable on ANY level.

If he wants to go and see them, so be it. You don't need to concern yourself with them any longer.

I don't really understand why you're wavering tbh. Just because she said they are old and tired? It could be matter of fact, it could be emotional blackmail and given the history it's probably the latter. It doesn't matter - like the posters above said it's for him to manage his relationship with them and you to manage yours. Wasting energy worrying that he will resent you is pointless - you aren't stopping him from having a relationship with them so any resentment would be completely unjustified. It sounds like he's starting to realise that they are toxic anyway. They are very unlikely to change.

I've not gone NC with someone but did reduce contact and made myself less available to them. Sometimes the peace and quiet after all the drama and manipulation can be weird and I think some people waver at that point because they aren't used to it. Get used to it. You've earned some peace and quiet. You're not under any obligation to have a relationship with them just because they are related to your husband. Give yourself permission not to.

If your husband can build a relationship with them first that makes him happy then I’d be more likely to say yes to son going

Your boundaries are yours.

And his have to be his.

Your son is an entirely independent person in this context. I would let husband lead this. If he wants to go and see them let him take son. That doesn’t mean you have to go. And in fact you not going would help prevent things deteriorating again.

It's ok to say no, I'm done.

It's all about them, not your son. If it were about your son they would have got as table for 5 with a high chair ready.

If you agree to meet them now you're sending the message that after X months you'll come back and then the circle will restart.

Do you want your son to go through the same hurt as DH? Because he won't understand when you inevitably cut contact.

Has dh read the book by Susan Forward? I think one is called toxic inlaws and the other toxic parents.

Honestly, I think at times you've overreacted (not always, they clearly struggle to listen to people) and I think you're overly controlling this situation.

Your husband is their only child. They love him.

You can decide not to see them, but I really don't understand why you feel your son shouldn't? He won't be affected like your husband was. A grandparent relationship is completely different to a parental one. Especially if contact is once a month.

And I really don't understand why you stopped your child receiving the gifts? Isn't that just unfair on your child and bitter on your behalf?

My opinion, however unpopular it may be on Mumsnet, is to remove yourself from the situation and let your husband navigate his, and your son's, relationship with them.

This.

Definitely this. Don’t invest any time or energy into them. They don’t sound like the kind of people who can be reasoned with so don’t bother, as it’s a waste of time. Don’t think about them, talk to them or see them.

I wonder if the ‘old and tired’ guilt trip is anything to do with their upcoming trip to your area? Maybe they realise that you may feel guilt or that you worry about how your husband may react if anything happens to them?

Been in a similar situation, got tired of their behaviour and took a great big step back.

As soon as I did, DH slowly started noticing their lack of concern for anyone but themselves, DC included, and slowly started stepping back himself.

I now leave him to navigate his relationship with them and it's been a weight off my shoulders. However I did put my foot down and said they will have no contact with DC until they learn to respect me as his wife and DC mother, and they will have no chance of that until they learn to respect and value him as their son.

They need to respect your boundaries.

What helped to get DH to this point was me stepping back but also having therapy for himself. It's taken him 2 years but he's got there and he's finally in a place where he feels in control and confident with making sure his relationship with his parents is on his terms.

If you can, encourage your DH to start therapy. It sounds like he has a lot to unpick and it's unlikely they will help him with this. But it will be invaluable for him and for you as a family.

It took therapy for me to realise it was ok to step back and stop feeling guilty. If things about your relationship with them still bother you I'd suggest you try therapy too, but if you're happy with how things are for you, then keep doing what you're doing.

Good luck x

Don't feel guilt tripped by people saying that they are your child's grandparents and you shouldn't keep them from him OP. As the Mum, if you don't trust them with your child, then tell your DH that you don't want your child involved with them until they are prepared to respect you as the child's Mum, and treat you well, and if they can't do that, then a relationship with your child is not going to happen.

I know that your DS is your DH's too, but having clearly been manipulated by his parents all his life, I'm afraid I wouldn't be convinced that if he took your DS to see them without you being present, he would necessarily be making the right decisions with regard to his parents relationship with your DS, as it would be very easy in this situation, for him to fall back into the roll of child himself, and thereby bow to his parent's will, regarding your child. Hope that makes sense?

My advice for what it's worth, is stay NC, they really don't deserve any of you after the way they have behaved in the past.

I think I remember you posting previously about them driving round all the pubs to find you. They sound absolutely nuts and I don’t think you could at all be faulted for wanting to stay NC with them.

They sound insane. I would not go. Does your DH realise how bad they are?

I agree.

Any thoughts?

your DH can and should have a relationship with his parents. You, on the other hand need never ever see or mention them again. With DS? I've read all your posts and apart from the fact that they seem overwhelming (the lockdown stuff and chasing you round and the flowers) I'm not sure what they actually do to DS that you don't like.

Having said that. You could agree with DH that he goes to see them, on his terms, as much as he wants, and that when DS is bigger he could go too? or when your DH thinks it would be ok?

I would be DH in your scenario.

I have spent my life trying to be what my parents wanted and putting them first and my needs aside. When it became completely untenable (once I had a DH and DC) the relationship broke down. I asked them to leave us alone for a while and we would be in touch when I felt able (I was having chemo at the time). Contract from them to us became solicitors letters (full of lies and exaggeration) and eventually in Family Court they won contact (via three expensive barristers) with my DC. We could not afford lawyers.

One of my parents has since died and a normal relationship is slowly developing with the non-batshit one that remains.

I don’t know the answer. A relationship with them is untenable
for you that is clear and for your DH it is exhausting and confusing trying to navigate.

I suspect your DH is trying to placate you and them and has no idea what to do because what he wants, the love and respect due to an adult son, comes with strings and tricks and demands and expectations and disappointment.

Why are the presents unopened?

That seems kind of spiteful.

@Pringleface Yeah, that was them! After we registered DS. I probably should have included all those incidents in here to give people more perspective, but it'd have been an essay...

@Shesasuperfreak DH was given the presents for him and DS. He put them in the basement and has left them there. I've let him lead on it. If the last gift they gave DS is anything to go by, they'll be massively unsuitable anyway; but regardless - it didn't feel like a battle I should fight.

@EmmaDilemma5 Thanks, I appreciate the perspective. DH is uncertain about DS seeing them, too. And I didn't keep the gifts from DS - DH did. He didn't mention them to me, or ask for my input.

He's had increasing contact with them recently. His Dad threatened to cut him out of his will about 7 weeks ago, as they hadn't seen him. That got no reply from DH. Then his mum started her random updates again. She's stopped, and now his Dad seems to be sending a weekly "Will we see you this week" style message, which DH seems to reply to every week to say something came up and he couldn't make it, without making any actual effort to try.

He did yesterday suggest that he goes to see them tomorrow, and asked if I would really never see them again (which I have never said), but said he didn't want DS to be around them for a while, and has suggested we seriously consider moving away, so we see them at most for a few days of limited contact a year. It's possible but we only moved here a few years ago, as somewhere we wanted to settle, two years ago. We've all made friends here, DS has nursery...

It's his birthday at the weekend; so I suspect he will go and see them either this week or next week.

I'd like to speak to his half-siblings before I go. They made the decision to stop their children from meeting them, which I can't imagine was taken lightly, and have no contact with them. I'd like to hear their side; although I think DH might stop me from contacting them as his parents have threatened to cut him off if he has contact with his half siblings, they weren't even allowed to our wedding.

A bit of me does think it's rather telling that even 7 months down the line, they haven't asked about or mentioned DS at all - just DH.

Just incase anyone ever wonders how it ended...

I came home from work the day before DH's birthday and they were on the doorstep. Literally. DH was looking awkward, DS was hiding. I'd probably have walked back and left them to it, but DH's Dad saw me, and then just stood staring at me.

They were half-way through a conversation. DH says he'd just said that they need to treat us all better, and he needs a lot of answers, but they also need to make things up to me and make me comfortable around them again. I said he was welcome to go to the pub/a café etc or something with them if he wanted, and I'd carry on with DS' tea. FIL shouted, "See, you can't even agree on this!"

They made some comments about how they should just go then, should they' they'd just go... MIL gave DH a handwritten poem about how we was a much-wanted baby, and child, and teenager, and young adult, and they were so proud of him, and if he just takes a moment and thinks about it, he'll remember how wanted he was and how much they did for him and how much he's hurt them.

Apparantly DH told them that he's been happier since he's had basically NC with them, other than some odd text messages, but he feels sad about that; but his mum asked if he didn't care about her mental health then.

So I guess 7 months made no real difference and we're all back where we were. I'm not sure DH will have much contact without me. I can see them starting to drive around to "find us" again.

So all about them still? Their thoughts about him/ their views on him/ their feelings?

I wonder what happened to a lot of parents who had kids in the 60s/70s. Obviously this will rile some people who are thoughtful and great parents, but I see so many people in their 70s and 80s who are totally "me me".

They have their faults pointed out and where they could say sorry for their behaviour all they do is list what they have done for their kids when they were young, and almost expect a round of applause - Well Done!!! you acted as a parent when I was a kid. As though it excuses anything they do now