To ask for your help in how to say this tomorrow morning?

[MyHeadIsRuined]

Relations between me and my in-laws are basically non-existent, but my husband has asked me to meet with them tomorrow and tell them how I feel, as a last chance.

They are difficult. They don't take criticism well, they will argue with any examples I give, they do not apologise, his mum will cry. If they even listen, his mum is likely to forget about it five minutes later and go back to what suits her... but I've said I'll try.

They were "okay" when we met, other than a bizarre insistence that they saw DH every week. They've got progressively worse. During lockdown, they kept appearing outside our window (an hour away!) to watch us, without saying anything until someone noticed they were there 🥴 When I was pregnant, they called all the time to shout at us that we were ruining it for them by not finding out what the baby was, or announcing it publicly. From 7 months pregnant, they hassled my hospital, which meant when their answer to whether I was there changed slightly (as I was), they turned up and DH had to leave me being prepared for a cat 1 C-section to get them to go away. They sent flowers signed from my dead parents. They drove around pubs to find where we were, and crashed a whole meal. There are SO many examples.

I don't want a relationship with them. I can see how their toxic nature has affected DH, and I don't want that around my son. His mum has proven that she can't be trusted with him; she won't listen to us, and she deliberately goes against what we say. I'm done with the 30 missed calls because DH hasn't answered his phone, the random visits, the constant pressure to see them. I think DH should go by himself; and when DS is older, he can go to if the in-laws have proven themselves to be trustworthy... but he says that's what they want, and he doesn't want to go without us, so I've said I'll try.

They have asked me to wipe the slate clean but followed this up by saying I have no right to say they can't see DS on Christmas Day (we're not with them this year) so I don't feel that they're actually going to listen to me... I'd put money on them agreeing, and then turning up to wherever they think we'll be anyway.

Where do I start? Do I even try?

Are the half siblings FIL kids or MIL? And DH the only biological child from both of them? If FIL kids it might be that she has alienated FIL from his children also. If MIL kids then... She's not a mother. She's an obsessive bully. Explains the death grip on DH though if he's the last child speaking to them. Well take comfort in the fact that you are not the issue OP, it's just them. Maybe DH could reach out to half siblings for support? As in "no you're not nuts, she's actually wicked" kinda thing. Might give him strength if there are other people who have experienced them as parents who can validate his feelings.

@HikingforScenery Yes, that seems like it'll be the way forward. It's not what he wants - he thinks it's what his mum would have wanted; and I expect it'll lead to difficult decisions about why DS isn't there, but I expect this will be what happens until he's ready to reduce contact himself, if he ever is.

@BatshitBanshee FILs; and yes, DH is their only child together. I have gently suggested he contacts one of his half-siblings. His immediate response is that his parents wouldn't forgive him, but he seemed to be contemplating the idea later on.

MIL has text DH today. Just "DH's name, when will we see DS to give him his presents? Uncle X has had a doctors appointment today".

He hasn't replied. I've only seen it because DS had his watch and it came up, I don't know if he's read it yet.

His immediate response is that his parents wouldn't forgive him, but he seemed to be contemplating the idea later on.

His parents should be looking for forgiveness, not withholding it or doling it out. I'd broach it again, in a supportive way. This is so isolating for DH, some degree of familial support would be helpful in whatever fashion.

Small update. As predicted, MIL contacted DH to ask when they'd be seeing DS to exchange presents. He is going by himself tomorrow. He's said he intends to reiterate that they need to have a difficult chat about his childhood, and about respecting our boundaries. He knows that I feel I've reached the end of the road, and he says he's thinking about whether he has, too.

He's working up to messaging one of his half-siblings to talk, too; and he's debating talking to one of his aunts. I'll keep gently encouraging him to see if his half-siblings want to talk.

I still feel very stressed out by it; and like I may be losing my mind, but he seems clearer.

She’s not letting go easily, she’s using the uncle’s doctors appointment to reel him back in.

I think it's quite common to feel like it's you that's losing your mind. It's a key feature of how these people operate. I actually think you sound wise and strong. You are certainly doing the right thing in calling time on this, once and for all, for you and for your DS (and hopefully also for your DH).

Sending you strength and every good wish. You can do this. xx

It is very likely that his mother alienated her step children. If they were much older than DH or only there very part time, he may not have understood what was happening.

If they reject him, it's likely because they are very hurt by PIL. DH should be ready for the possibility they won't want to see him and it isn't his fault.

Just doing some pre-Christmas admin and I thought I'd update.

DH went to see his parents by himself. It was supposed to be a 10-minute present swap and turned into a two-hour chat. The end of it, according to DH, is that they appreciate that I'm not happy, and the ball is in our court, so when we want contact, I can get in touch and they'll leave us alone until then. So far, they have done that, with the exception of a single message to DH.

I told DH that it seemed like more of the same promise to me, that they always quickly break, but he thinks they've understood this time and that they'll leave it with me. My issue with that is that I didn't want it left with me; I don't want any contact anymore, I'm done. I don't want the ball in my court; I don't want the ball at all, I don't want to play. I'm not sure how unreasonable that is.

As far as I know, DH hasn't contacted his half-siblings yet, but it has been a busy week.

It was DS birthday earlier this week, and other than that message to DH, we heard nothing. It was lovely to be able to celebrate without worry. Completely mindblowing. They did give DH presents to give him, but so far he has left them in the back of the car.

My head cannot comprehend that they've done this for so long, shouted at us in public and then a week later understood... but I'm hoping for a quiet Christmas with just the three of us, and a much better 2023. I'll try and enjoy it while it lasts!

Thanks for all the advice.

So good to hear from you Op, I was thinking of you yesterday and wondered how you were but didn't want to disturb. Tbh if I were you I'd keep the ball in my/our court and not contact them. Just don't. See what happens - see if they stick to it or see if DH ever actually wants to see them again. The fact that your life is already considerably less stressful should be eye-opening enough.

Have a lovely Christmas & HB to DS.

Ha! So what they've done is hand over responsibility for the problem to you.
DiL has decided we can't see them... DiL won't let them see us...
We'd love to but DiL doesn't let us...

That's so convenient for them. I'd reiterate to DH, whenever it comes up, that their volatile behaviour makes them unsafe to be around. The only ball in play here, is your determination to keep your family safe.

Stay strong, OP. Encourage him to get therapy, acknowledge the sadness of family disharmony, connect with extended family that are not barking mad, and carry on keeping your family safe.

It's sad, but mending it is not within your control.

I’d be tempted to say, ok the ball is my court? We’ll I decide I don’t want contact with them myself. No more discussion.

this won’t last. They’ll push, just sounds like they decided to play the long game. I wouldn’t even engage with it.

I'd keep the ball and take a sharp pair of scissors to it OP - they think they've been very clever but actually this means you can just disengage exactly as you want to. Best Christmas present ever!

My issue with that is that I didn't want it left with me; I don't want any contact anymore, I'm done. I don't want the ball in my court; I don't want the ball at all, I don't want to play. I'm not sure how unreasonable that is.

Stretching the ball metaphor completely, take your ball and go home.

Then wait, because they won't be able to resist. And I suspect neither will your poor DH.

Thought I’d do a quick update, as you’re all so wise, and incase it helps anyone in the future.

DH had a quick text chat with his parents on Christmas Day, and then they sent some random weekly messages with updates on their day… “we went here today”, “your Dad is digging up the hedge in the garden”, type stuff. He hasn’t been replying. I’ve stayed out of it.

He did mention them a few weeks ago, and asked how I was feeling. He said he felt calmer and happier not talking to them, which gave me a lot of mixed feelings. I’d be heartbroken if DS didn’t want to see me, but I also don’t want to see them. His aunt has messaged him asking if we’ll be going to a family party in May, although didn’t outright reference the situation. The presents they got DH & DS are still downstairs unopened.

They messaged again yesterday saying they love and miss him; and will they be allowed to see him soon. He replied to say maybe. Nothing about me or DS, although I’d be surprised if DH was planning to go without us.

Is is fair to let him have whatever relationship he wants with them; and go see them as much as he likes, but to opt out of meetings/FaceTimes etc for me & DS right now? When DS is older, we’ll talk about it again; but while he’s still a baby… they’ve never shown me that they can behave around him. I don’t want the manipulation and shouting and hurt around him, he’s such a good baby, he doesn’t deserve that.

(The alternative being that I have to go too, with DS, I guess, until DH feels he can protect DS by himself and we’re both comfortable with him going - I’d never tell DH he can’t see them. It might impact on my opinion of him and our marriage; if I’m bluntly honest, but I’d never come between them like that)

DH wants another baby; and they’re genuinely the reason I couldn’t right now. I feel sick that I’ve given DS such an abusive family.

It’s been so lovely not having to think about them. That text has set off all my worries again. They’ll say they’ve left us alone; other than random texts, and haven’t insisted on calls or visits… but it all feels too little too late now.

Would it be an option for your DH to meet them in a neutral venue with your DS (and without you) once every couple of months - park, cafe, soft play etc?

Given the vast amount of bad behaviour towards OP, I wouldn't say so.

My general rule of thumb is I don't allow anyone bar my mother around my child alone until DC is able to tell me what happened while I wasn't there.

But with your ILs - I'd wait until DS is able to tell me what happened and also old enough to stand up to them.

I wouldn't want DS to get sucked into the same cycle as his father tbh.

I would ask them to read this post , quietly without challenge.

You need to be clear and honest. But they need to see it from your perspective. Theirs is a different one and you need to be prepared to listen to that too also without challenge.

Then an ok. This is what is happening moving forward

I wouldn’t want my child around these toxic people.

If DH won’t see them without you, that’s his choice and I would support him.

I think it’s sad you are putting off having another baby because of them. You’re giving them a huge amount of power over you.

But they haven’t left you alone, the texts are still contact. Sending updates on their day is still contact. It puts them where they want to be, in DH’s thoughts. Well almost, where they’d really like to be is in your lounge but this is better than nothing.
The aunt is a flying monkey, asking in a roundabout way, on their behalf if you’ll be at the forthcoming family party. Be careful around her, whatever you tell her will get back to them.

All of this. They actually haven't been able to leave you all alone. Their best effort is still not what you needed.

Healing takes a long time. If they could behave reasonably for a couple of years, maybe with good boundaries you could slowly introduce time. But it's not long enough.

I agree. There’s absolutely no chance that people like this will change.

Sorry, I didn’t realise this was an old thread with updates. Keeping yourself and your child away from them and their toxicity is the only way you’ll have peace of mind. DH can do what he wants on his own. They’ll say all sorts of rubbish, you just have to accept that and try not to let it hurt you.

I think your DH needs a lot of therapy to unpick his relationship with his parents. It’s occurred to me that sonetines his thought process can turn on a dime to make coping with them tolerable (or justify their behaviours to himself) which is something he learned as a child and normalized. You will see patterns of behaviours where he does this himself and it will drive you nuts and cause problems for your kid/s. I think you are wise not rushing having another atm.

Thanks all.

Really rough week with this. DH is now planning to see them on his own... but he keeps referencing "when" things are better and we can all meet up. It worried me. We had a big chat on Tuesday and I told him that I'm not comfortable with DS seeing them. He said he didn't expect it to be imminent, but didn't feel I could say that DS couldn't see them, as they are his grandparents. He tried to say that compared to their usual behaviour; they have left us alone, and therefore they have understood this time. He still thinks that if I told them what behaviours I don't like; maybe they'd listen, and maybe it was all lost in translation. I know they are his parents, but it's so frustrating.

We talked again yesterday and he says he knows that it won't be imminent; but they are his parents, and he wants to find a way to see them. I explained again that I don't know if or when I'd be ready to, but right now, I am absolutely nowhere near. He accepted that, but he still falls into referring to when we all see them; etc. We talked about having a second child, and I told him that he'd need to go into that knowing that the second child may not have a relationship with his parents... he seemed okay with that, but honestly, who knows. He promised he'd never take DS without my knowledge.

Last night he admitted he's finding some of DS' behaviour odd; like his new thing of stroking your hair or arm if he's upset.... presumably because his Dad was very much a "no touching" person and he and DH still don't hug now, although that is DH's choice and FIL does try. Both MIL and FIL insist on hugging me, too. I explained it's really normal behaviour and we talked about it a bit, and how he wants his relationship with DS to be, but I'm really stunned at this...

Lots to think about. I'm hoping he'll go for therapy to talk it through with someone else.

Thanks for being here to "hold my hand" through this; and make me feel less like I'm going crazy.

You're not going crazy OP, I promise you. You sound very level headed which is a feat considering what you've been through.

I do think your DH should see a therapist, I think his issues go far deeper than is immediately apparent. The stroking is very normal - I'm not sure why your DH would be weirded out by that. It's a pretty common way to sooth and regulate.