To ask for your help in how to say this tomorrow morning?

[MyHeadIsRuined]

Relations between me and my in-laws are basically non-existent, but my husband has asked me to meet with them tomorrow and tell them how I feel, as a last chance.

They are difficult. They don't take criticism well, they will argue with any examples I give, they do not apologise, his mum will cry. If they even listen, his mum is likely to forget about it five minutes later and go back to what suits her... but I've said I'll try.

They were "okay" when we met, other than a bizarre insistence that they saw DH every week. They've got progressively worse. During lockdown, they kept appearing outside our window (an hour away!) to watch us, without saying anything until someone noticed they were there 🥴 When I was pregnant, they called all the time to shout at us that we were ruining it for them by not finding out what the baby was, or announcing it publicly. From 7 months pregnant, they hassled my hospital, which meant when their answer to whether I was there changed slightly (as I was), they turned up and DH had to leave me being prepared for a cat 1 C-section to get them to go away. They sent flowers signed from my dead parents. They drove around pubs to find where we were, and crashed a whole meal. There are SO many examples.

I don't want a relationship with them. I can see how their toxic nature has affected DH, and I don't want that around my son. His mum has proven that she can't be trusted with him; she won't listen to us, and she deliberately goes against what we say. I'm done with the 30 missed calls because DH hasn't answered his phone, the random visits, the constant pressure to see them. I think DH should go by himself; and when DS is older, he can go to if the in-laws have proven themselves to be trustworthy... but he says that's what they want, and he doesn't want to go without us, so I've said I'll try.

They have asked me to wipe the slate clean but followed this up by saying I have no right to say they can't see DS on Christmas Day (we're not with them this year) so I don't feel that they're actually going to listen to me... I'd put money on them agreeing, and then turning up to wherever they think we'll be anyway.

Where do I start? Do I even try?

Any update op? Did you meet them

I figured I owed you an update, as you were all so helpful.

I had another chat with DH and explained again that I had no chance of them listening to me... and that there was very little chance of them being able to change. He eventually understood the first point but ignored the latter.

He talked to them before we got there. Then we turned up... His mum refused to look or talk to us. They didn't say hello. I asked if they were okay... they ignored me. DH asked, his mum said she was not okay, she was mortified. DH asked if we should say, she didn't answer, his Dad eventually said we should, so we faffed around sorting a high chair etc and trying to sit the five of us at a two-person table.

Then it descended into chaos. His Dad said they'd never heard these things before. His mum cried and blanked me and our baby. She kept saying they'd done everything for DH, how could he do this to them? After five minutes of only really talking to say "But why was turning up wrong?", etc, she went to the bathroom for 20 minutes. His Dad immediately started chatting about normal things like the footie. She came back, sat down for five minutes, DH said we needed to talk as this was important, she asked to give our baby his presents. We said yes, baby opened one, isn't too fussed... she asked when they could see him on his birthday, I said this was the present swap. She said they wanted to see him, they have a legal right to, they'll come round for a few hours.... We didn't agree, she stormed out.

DH's dad stayed and argued with us for about half an hour; he continually asked me who had said this was the present swap, was it DH, they'd never been told that, AHA it was a lie and I was wrong. It was bizarre. Staff kept coming over and asking if we were okay and if we needed more drinks... It was mortifying. DS got upset and didn't manage to eat much. DH was really upset. His Dad eventually said only me.& him talked any sense, and then left.

DH has spent a few days reeling but now appears to be starting to make excuses for them, mentally... Maybe his mum is unwell. Maybe it's because they had an on/off marriage when he was born. Maybe we should see them more than once a month, and then they'd be happier. Maybe we should feel sorry for her in that she is never happy, she's disappointed in everything. He mentioned that the last time he talked to them, she threatened to cut off his inheritance if he didn't see them "enough", which he'd never said before.

For now we've heard nothing else, but I'd bet they'll be in touch before DS birthday near Christmas...

I did talk to the police in the summer but they don't do "logs" here, they'd need to start an investigation and interview them, which DH wasn't ready for. I'm hoping he'll talk to someone and they'll help him see how unhealthy this is... he seems open to that.

Thanks again for all the advice.

This.

Sympathy for your DH but this is an extremely toxic situation.

I think I would have to be the one to be firm here and tell MIL when they eventually make contact that if she honestly thinks given her previous behaviour with her own son that I would allow her around my DS - supervised or otherwise - she needs her head checked. She has no legal right to your son. You've tried being nice and you've tried being reasonable, it's not working. Your DH is trapped in an abusive relationship with his parents and I don't know how much more of that I could take. His mother needs psychiatric treatment and DH needs therapy to start standing up to her and realise - from an independent third party's POV - that this whole relationship is absolute crazy behaviour.

Based on your information - and my own DHs toxic parents - your DH would benefit from some therapy. To help him establish boundaries.
However this has to come from him. It took 16 years of our marriage for my DH to take this step.
The other way is for you both to see a therapist and come up with a plan together

Unfortunately this is very difficult and emotionally charged. I hope you find a way forward.

They sent flowers from your dead parents???? That is so beyond fucked up. People like that don't get cleans slates. If they've gotten to their age, they're hardly going to change now. These people would not be part of my life, or my children's. I don't want my kids around people capable of doing something so twisted and spiteful.
Your husband needs therapy, because he likely is blinded to the extent of their toxicity.

Don't even try. You won't be heard.

THis is one for DH to put a stop to all by himself.

They ignore everything you (and he) say or pretend it was never said. And repeat.

Your dh ignores/forgets/doesn't understand everything you say.

And repeat.

Don't get dragged into this madness any further.

Honestly, if you choose to go NC with them, nobody could blame you. They are an absolute menace.

Your DH is behaving despicably towards you and I would be long since divorced seriously considering my marriage if I were you. What kind of husband repeatedly offers his wife up on a plate for this abuse and harassment? He is a cretin.

I’m sorry that’s probably hard to hear but I would never ever forgive him leaving me and out baby during C section prep - he chose to do that rather than tell the staff they weren’t welcome and to call police if they refused to leave. He has blocked your ability to get justice and protection through legal routes, actively preventing you keeping yourself safe from them.

You will never win this battle, you will only continue being abused by the in laws with your husband a complicit facilitator. You can make all the excuses for him that you like but bluntly, he’s a grown man with a wife and child and if he doesn’t want to stop facilitating your abuse, he doesn’t deserve to have a family.

I don’t think you realise how bad he is.

I'm so sorry that you have this toxic stuff in your life. I think going NC is the only way. Just drop the rope before they drag you under - you can never reason with unreasonable people.

I don't know if anyone has suggested it upthread, but do have a look at the "Stately Homes" thread on here for people with toxic family members (so named because a creator's parents justified their upbringing filled with abuse and pain by saying they had a good childhood because they were taken to National Trust places). Link to the latest thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4660201-november-2022-well-we-took-you-to-stately-homes?page=1 It's a safe haven of friendly, wise and experienced advice and solidarity.

Block them and don't engage any further, over anything, even - and perhaps especially - your child. Very best wishes to you. x

Bloody hell, they're insane. I wouldn't try, or want to have any contact with them at all. Let your husband see them weekly, if he really must - at their house. He needs to grow a pair of balls to tell them to bak right off.

Wow. They are insane and you would be right to go NC. Your dh clearly doesn't really get how nuts they are, because he was brought up by them so he doesn't know any different. To be brutally honest, I would be questioning whether I could continue in a marriage with someone whose boundaries about what is acceptable behaviour were so very different from my own.

Agree, it took me 15 years to seek therapy and 30+ years later I still occasionally see the therapist for a “top up” I am now v. low contact, no contact would be too difficult for lots of reasons.

my main marriage principle is that each side dealing with their own relatives so your DH should tell/ shout/ call/ write/ sing/ draw to them , whatever he prefers, it on him.
They sound quite toxic and intense.
Is your DH the only child?

No-cut contact

I went through something pretty similar to this OP, and it wasn't until I freaked out one evening, and threw something at the TV, (I'm usually VERY mild mannered), that my husband finally realised that I had had enough!! We talked it through, and he told his parents that until I was ready, they wouldn't be seeing any of us, and if they tried to see us to 'try and talk us round', then that would make it longer before I would even consider having any further contact with them. We went for 3 years with no contact whatsoever, and then DH's grandad died. We went to the funeral, and his Mum (who had lost her Dad, came over and thanked us for coming, then went to walk away. At that point I felt sorry for her, so approached her again, and we started seeing them again, but gradually the old problems crept back in, and once again we stopped seeing them. Again we didn't see them for a couple of years, at which point my DH mentioned that he missed his family, so I though about it, and offered to give it another shot. Finally it seemed that it had sunk in, that any more shit behaviour toward me, would mean they lost contact with their son and only grandchild. After that, things got better with every passing year. So, I would start by going no contact, and then see where things go, but any approach from them, and I would give serious consideration to taking out a restraining order, as they really do seem to have lost the plot. As a matter of interest OP, can I ask, is MIL going through menopause, as I seriously believed both at the time, and for ever after, that this was the cause of our problems, and that FIL, just went along with her bat shit ways for a quiet life?

No way would I be putting myself in that position.

I'd have to say no to the meeting and don't ask again. they sound batshit.

Your PIL are nutty as squirrel poo. I'd be going no contact for sure.

I’m amazed you married someone with such insane parents, I would have run for the hills. He is the problem here. He is letting you down and facilitating their abuse of you and your child. I would be disgusted with him if I were you.

Don't think I'd put up with this either.

They sound absolutely psychotic. Wow.

Holy shit just read the update. Your DH needs therapy asap to cope with this situation. And absolutely no contact all the way. Their behaviour is appalling and you and your child don’t deserve this crap.

@pizzaHeart Practically, yes. He has three half-siblings but all contact between them stopped when the youngest was 18. DH has no idea why or who instigated it. He has asked, but his parents do not reference that the half-siblings exist; and are very annoyed if they are mentioned.

@Stopthebusplease Thanks for sharing that - I'm sorry you've been there too; though. I don't think she'd be going through the menopause, she's in her early 70s, but I suppose she might be! We'd never be close enough for her to say.

I've just asked DH if he is expecting us to see them again before Christmas. He said he wasn't expecting it but it might happen. I feel like banging my head against a wall.

He's looking into therapy, hopefully that'll help. Other than this, he is the best husband and father. He just feels so in debt to them, as his parents.

Why can’t your DH just have a relationship with his parents without you? It seems like the sensible way forward, as he doesn’t want to cut contact. No need for the gaffing about with you having a conversation when you’re being ignored.