To ask for your help in how to say this tomorrow morning?

[MyHeadIsRuined]

Relations between me and my in-laws are basically non-existent, but my husband has asked me to meet with them tomorrow and tell them how I feel, as a last chance.

They are difficult. They don't take criticism well, they will argue with any examples I give, they do not apologise, his mum will cry. If they even listen, his mum is likely to forget about it five minutes later and go back to what suits her... but I've said I'll try.

They were "okay" when we met, other than a bizarre insistence that they saw DH every week. They've got progressively worse. During lockdown, they kept appearing outside our window (an hour away!) to watch us, without saying anything until someone noticed they were there 🥴 When I was pregnant, they called all the time to shout at us that we were ruining it for them by not finding out what the baby was, or announcing it publicly. From 7 months pregnant, they hassled my hospital, which meant when their answer to whether I was there changed slightly (as I was), they turned up and DH had to leave me being prepared for a cat 1 C-section to get them to go away. They sent flowers signed from my dead parents. They drove around pubs to find where we were, and crashed a whole meal. There are SO many examples.

I don't want a relationship with them. I can see how their toxic nature has affected DH, and I don't want that around my son. His mum has proven that she can't be trusted with him; she won't listen to us, and she deliberately goes against what we say. I'm done with the 30 missed calls because DH hasn't answered his phone, the random visits, the constant pressure to see them. I think DH should go by himself; and when DS is older, he can go to if the in-laws have proven themselves to be trustworthy... but he says that's what they want, and he doesn't want to go without us, so I've said I'll try.

They have asked me to wipe the slate clean but followed this up by saying I have no right to say they can't see DS on Christmas Day (we're not with them this year) so I don't feel that they're actually going to listen to me... I'd put money on them agreeing, and then turning up to wherever they think we'll be anyway.

Where do I start? Do I even try?

Oh dear.

I understand that you love your DH & you are doing this because he asked you to.

it's hard, but you need to find a gentle way to say 'no DH, I'd love to do it because you have asked me to, but I can't. Your parents have behaved incredibly badly, yet don't think they have. We have tried, you have tried, it's not that they don't understand it's that they think what I want is irrelevant! I'm not just your wife and an incubator, I'm my own person and I'm not going to OBEY your parents, your mother seems to believe she has the right to tell me that I have to let her see DS - I do not, not even on Christmas Day.

bksh blah blah.

there is no way I'm subjecting myself to MORE of her batshit behaviour.

& do tell her if she stalks me again, I will be reporting her to the police.

the answer to you not wanting to visit without us, is for you not to go, it's NOT to brow beat me into 'behaving & taking shit from your mother'.

years of it I had until I finally said 'No more, they are NOT coming here ever again. If you allow them, that's it!' & obviously I am not going there ever again. They've had loads of chances to be nicer people, but here we are again and this is THE END.'

you just have to be very firm, it won't get better, you'll just waste more time.

be brave, best of luck.

It’s probably pointless.
I would not give examples or you will get tied up in details.

Perhaps a simple message like
“I have been very very unhappy with how things have been . If nothing changes then i will choose to have no contact with you and the result will be that you will see DH and DS less for the rest of your lives.

The major needs are that you respect me and give us space. Yoy must check with DH that it is convenient to visit or phone .

I am not here to argue with you. Please take some time to consider before answering and know that this is the last chance for you to try and rebuild something. That relationship will be very fragile and you will need to work hard and not expect much from me straight away.

If you shout at me I will walk away.

Good luck OP

I would go. But I would say nothing. Let them talk and then thank them and leave.

And get on with your life.

Sounds pointless to me. People that self involved won’t hear anything you have to say and won’t recognise their toxic behaviour.

personally I wouldn’t bother, but if your DH must try, make sure he know this is the last try and get an agreement from him of what you’ll do when they inevitably revert to type. Make sure this is a one off chance and not something you keep repeating.

Tell them two words: Fuck off.

And get your husband into counselling- he is in classic FOG.

No contact is the only way. Give an inch, they will take a mile..

oh no the dead parents thing is fucking disturbing. I think you’ve put up with enough op, no more chances for them

That’s awful toxic behaviour!

I wouldn’t meet with them either, I can’t get my head round why your husband would think it would do any good whatsoever…. years of conditioning from his family! I’d just grey rock them from here on in!

Meeting them is playing into their game of controlling you. I’d say not to meet them. Ignore them. If they turn up ignore them. If they knock tell them you are busy but don’t open the door. Seeing your son only when you are present the whole time. Could your dh talk to their GP about their behaviour? The doctor can’t say anything about them but would know that they are not acting normally.

If you decide to go, then I'd open the visit by saying that you're tired of their behaviour and are only there because your DH has asked you to give them one more chance.

Then stop talking. Let them talk and doubtless dig themselves into a hole.

Then you can leave with the parting words "I see nothing is going to change". You don't ever have to see them again.

@MyHeadIsRuined only see them to use the time to tell them you are going NC and that DH can visit them whenever he wishes, but as far as you are both concerned they are not to visit. That DH can take child to visit and that will be reviewed depending on their behaviour.

Go no contact, they owe you an explanation not the other way round.

You can't argue with crazy! They won't change and you know that. I guess DH can't admit it himself.

I value my time and the one short life I've been given. Would I waste that time on people who do not consider my feelings or well-being at all... Just because I happened to marry their son? No way.

If I were you I would not be summoned to this meeting. Then I'd go extremely low, if not no contact. Your DH can see them alone if he feels obligated.

I went no contact with toxic relatives who I was blood related to. I would have zero qualms about doing it to in laws who acted in such ways that yours have. Best of luck.

They are batshit. Agree with PP who said move and don't tell them...

They are beyond strange OP, the flowers signed from your dead parents would have been the last time I ever had anything to do with them.

I think you know that they won't change. Therefore its pointless meeting them. Your husband needs to tell them one last time that you have no intention of maintaining a relationship with them.

If he can't do this, and make it clear to them that its your final word on the matter, then you absolutely do have a DH problem.

Restraining order?
I'd just tell them you don't want them in your life.

What's worrying is that your DH doesn't seem to recognise quite how Weird his parents are and that he is still bothering, after all you have described, to attempt to 'explain' things to them - not once but three times. My worry would be him. If he is going to insist on keeping contact with them, that brings DC into contact with them. And if he doesn't have the strength to stand up to them, then your DC is vulnerable in his care at theirs without you there. It sounds like you need to have a very clear talk to him and show him this thread - perhaps some joint counselling sessions with a third party to talk this through.

This, but have a little voice recorder running in your pocket.

As pp said, flip it.
DH said he wants me to meet with you as you want a clean slate. What do you feel you need to do to change?

Short of moving house far far away I'd get a restraining order. These people sound seriously unhinged. For the safety and sanity of you, your son and your family you need to get away from them.

What's their end game? Is it that they want to be more involved in your life? What point were they making with the flowers thing??

I agree with posters that they sound crazy and are probably trying to manipulate you again...
If you decide to go though, I think your relationship would have to have rules.
For example, "we can see you once a month from now on and that is all. Visits need to be arranged in advance, please do not just turn up"

Your husband probably does need counselling to see what they've been doing..

They sound bonkers, stalker behaviour even.
BUT the Apple hasn’t fallen far from the tree. Your DH is showing similar behaviour, by asking you to meet them when knowing full well you don’t want to, by not listening to your requests, won’t contemplate that it’s his parents problem and not yours.

If the meeting goes ahead, be honest and open, tell them you feel threatened by them following you turning up unannounced at your home and gate crashing social occasions when out with friends. It’s bordering on stalking and has to stop. If it continues the consequences will be serious.
Christmas: Make it clear you and dh have every right to decide who sees baby at Christmas or any other time. Remind them that they, as grandparents don’t have any rights over baby.
If they want to form a good relationship with their grandson they have to respect your boundaries.
But it’ll fall on deaf ears, they’ll put on good show, smile and nod, maybe a few tears, a few huff and puffs, promise to change and then forget all about what they promised as soon as they walk out of the door.

If you must go, tell them they need to dial back the obsessive behaviour and stalking or you will contact the police and get an injunction against them! The fact that they are your parents in law doesn't make this behaviour any more acceptable than if it was anyone else. Do this calmly and matter of factly then leave. There is no point in going into specifies with people like that.

My in laws are similar. We now only see them at funerals. Whenever I am beginning to think we should try to be benevolent they screw up. This year they told a relative who my husband is close to that I am an evil witch who has prevented them from being close to their grandchildren. I haven't! The downfall of their relationship with their son is to blame, plus the fact that my MiL is obsessive about babies but loses interest the moment they can walk and hates boys, so ours were dropped in favour of their younger cousins. Distance is key. Your husband will have to see them without you going forward. He should be explaining to them that their behaviour is unacceptable, not you.

I think I would do this.
Look them straight in the eyes.
Say. DH has asked me to give you one more chance.
Should you appear within 1 mile of our house or my parents house on Christmas day. You will not see me or your grandchild for 365 days. Is that understood.

I know they turned up at the hospital, but why didn't your husband refuse to see them and tell the midwife to tell him to go away? They can't just walk up to the ward.

Why didn't he speak to the hospital and say that no information should be given out about you?

He has to do his bit!