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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Nativity disappointment why do teachers do it

417 replies

Bucketheadbucketbum · 07/12/2022 18:42

Want to key stage 2 nativity today. It was 1 hour long! Approx 40 kids in it. Some children had multiple lines throughout the hour, on the stage for the bulk of the time, solo songs the works. Others had just one line and spent the rest of the time sitting to the side apart from group songs where they all stood up. I understand all parts cant be equal and it must be a nightmare to try and be fair but this was shockingly poorly distrubuted. Why would you do this as a teacher? So disappointing for the children and parents unless you happen to be one of the "stars" of the show.

OP posts:
ancientgran · 07/12/2022 20:39

Italiandreams · 07/12/2022 20:26

I’m a teacher, have been doing it 18 years. You can’t please everybody of course, but some place’s definitely make more of an effort to include all those who wish to be included than others. Depends if you see it’s main purpose as being an all singing all dancing production, or a chance to give children a chance to shine, build resilience and confidence, develop performance skills etc

You are so right. I have 4 children, two went to primary school A, two went to primary school B. The difference was amazing. School A really did include every child who wanted to be involved, even small parts in the nativity had beautiful costumes (made by a group of mums from donated fabric) and all the children loved it. No favouritism on who got parts, for the nativity the tallest dark haired boy and girl were Mary and Joseph, the tallest blonde boy and girl were the Star of Bethlehem and Angel Gabriel etc. Amazingly the child who happened to get the part always did well maybe because it was something that was just accepted and all the children loved their costumes and parts, in ten years I never heard of a child not wanting their allocated part.

School B was different. It was the joke of the playground that the Head's kids, the deputy head's kids, the admin manager's kids, PTA members kids got the big parts (obviously not all in the same year) so it was hard for anyone else to get a look in. Same situation for 7 years, well 10 years for me as children in different years. Lots of kids upset, lots of bad feeling.

ancientgran · 07/12/2022 20:43

GuyFawkesDay · 07/12/2022 20:32

Delusional, imagining it or .......
Maybe bring a bit precious?

Teach your child to manage disappointing news. And that it doesn't define them or matter what part they have.

Put some parenting yards in.

I can assure you that being the child desperate for a part and left out for 7 years gave her plenty of experience dealing with that disappointment.

She knew it didn't define her thanks, doesn't mean she had to be happy about always being left out and as the governor pointed out to the Head she should have had the part and so in year 6 she got it and was brilliant.

Wafflesandcrepes · 07/12/2022 20:43

I once rushed home from work to find my DD had been shoved to the very back of 90 kids who all stood up and sang except for her and a friend. The teacher hated her. I stopped going after that.

Benjispruce4 · 07/12/2022 20:43

I work in primary and just here to echo what others have said. Lots of children do NOT want to say or do anything. We encourage but will not force.

saraclara · 07/12/2022 20:44

At drama / theatre clubs all children usually get the opportunity to have at least one line in their own little plays.

Yes. Because the leaders of these clubs are focused entirely on drama and the production.
A primary school teacher is having to actually teach a full timetable and all the work and pastoral stuff (and parent wrangling) that goes with it, just the same as for the rest of the year. The damn Nativity is ON TOP of all that, along wiht all the other Christmas pressures. You cannot possibly expect them to be able to give the kind of focus, time and yes, expertise in drama, that a theatre club leader can. And of course the theatre club people are only wrangling kids who WANT to perform.

SweetSakura · 07/12/2022 20:44

GuyFawkesDay · 07/12/2022 20:32

Delusional, imagining it or .......
Maybe bring a bit precious?

Teach your child to manage disappointing news. And that it doesn't define them or matter what part they have.

Put some parenting yards in.

This has been my approach. I told my daughter to just make the best of her small part and that the reality of life is we don't get everything we go for and learning to bounce back and keep putting our hand up the next time is a key skill. Learning resilience and bouncing back is such a key lesson.

But, I have to say I did secretly sympathise with her irritation that the teachers seem to have gone for social engineering and given the biggest parts to cripplingly shy children who are inaudible even to the front line.

tobee · 07/12/2022 20:45

My dd (who also happens to be autistic so you can't predict/generalise) had a very good reading voice and was often picked to narrate for nativity, Mother's Day assembly etc., got lots of laughs reading a funny poem etc. Yet I still felt parts were poorly distributed even though dd benefited from this. So the idea that it's ghastly, pushy parents and poor teachers or whatever isn't always the case.

It's nice to see all the kids getting involved ime.

Benjispruce4 · 07/12/2022 20:45

Do those sitting at the side not join in with the songs? That is taking part.

crochetmonkey74 · 07/12/2022 20:46

GuyFawkesDay · 07/12/2022 20:20

I'd love to see some of the parents on here try and sort a Nativity out with 30 Christmas hyper, yet also end of term tired kids.

My mum did it for 20 years and she had the patience of a saint, dealing with the prep school parents and their precocious offspring.

It's utterly exhausting. And not compulsory. Wouldn't surprise me if they stopped happening with all the griping.

Don't be so negative . Everyone on here can do it cos they've all watched Nativity

Pumperthepumper · 07/12/2022 20:48

ancientgran · 07/12/2022 20:39

You are so right. I have 4 children, two went to primary school A, two went to primary school B. The difference was amazing. School A really did include every child who wanted to be involved, even small parts in the nativity had beautiful costumes (made by a group of mums from donated fabric) and all the children loved it. No favouritism on who got parts, for the nativity the tallest dark haired boy and girl were Mary and Joseph, the tallest blonde boy and girl were the Star of Bethlehem and Angel Gabriel etc. Amazingly the child who happened to get the part always did well maybe because it was something that was just accepted and all the children loved their costumes and parts, in ten years I never heard of a child not wanting their allocated part.

School B was different. It was the joke of the playground that the Head's kids, the deputy head's kids, the admin manager's kids, PTA members kids got the big parts (obviously not all in the same year) so it was hard for anyone else to get a look in. Same situation for 7 years, well 10 years for me as children in different years. Lots of kids upset, lots of bad feeling.

And did that change when you joined the PTA?

NosieRosie · 07/12/2022 20:48

CentrifugalBumblePuppy · 07/12/2022 20:06

I think if any of us who trained as teachers (especially with drama as a specialism, like I did) currently have our eyes so rolled back into our heads at some of these comments from parents that we are mostly typing out replies using touch alone.

I get it. In a totally perfect classroom, every child will have an identically large speaking/singing/dancing role. Every child will sing and smile and laugh in all the right places. All parents would be appeased at this communist ideal where everyone is treated equally & all parents will fawn & clap at the beautiful ensemble piece rendered before them.

Unfortunately, living back in the real world, this isn’t, and can never be the case. You have to chose kids based on their abilities. Some will be stronger singers in the chorus, others have the confidence to be a narrator or lead character. Some will want to do all the fun backstage stuff (even if, as in the old days, that was just turning the CD player on & off at the right time). Others will throw themselves into helping make props or painting sheep for the bit with the shepherds. If you know your class well (and most of us do for reasons well outside the remit of bloody nativity casting) you know the rough plan of who will play what. You may have auditions, or ask the kids themselves who might be good in a part. You could workshop the whole shebang for a week before casting & the old regulars may still get the ‘premium’ roles, because that’s where their strengths lie.

Teachers will know who will work best in an ensemble chorus. They know the kids that will have the support to practice a larger role. They know who would be absolutely terrified if they were made to stand in front of hundreds of people and, if I’m honest, wet themselves in fright.

And, unfortunate as it seems, the ones with the confident PTA parents will often take the confident, larger roles not through favouritism, but because those confident people have confident children. There may be exceptions to this rule of course (and good teachers will be adept at encouraging those who have potential to excel in performing regardless of who their parent or what their background is) but it is a simple observation.

A good teacher will know which kid will make a fabulous comedy donkey, a clear speaking Angel Gabriel or a strong but silent Wise Man.

Even as a drama specialist, you know you can’t do right for doing bloody wrong. There will always be the pushy parent who’ll insist their nose picking progeny is the next Laurence Olivier. But there will also always be that one spark in a child that doesn’t have the support or money or ideal home life that you can nurture & develop, even in a school nativity, which could help that child in so many more ways than I could write here.

That’s why we do that same, thankless task, year in, year out.

Ain’t that the truth 👏👏👏

Ijustdontknowanything · 07/12/2022 20:48

I agree with you. I was never asked what I wanted to do/be as a child, and I'm actually a good singer. My face didn't fit however.

GuyFawkesDay · 07/12/2022 20:50

crochetmonkey74 · 07/12/2022 20:46

Don't be so negative . Everyone on here can do it cos they've all watched Nativity

😂😂😂

Just like they can all do a better job of teaching generally because they once went to school.

Pumperthepumper · 07/12/2022 20:51

Ijustdontknowanything · 07/12/2022 20:48

I agree with you. I was never asked what I wanted to do/be as a child, and I'm actually a good singer. My face didn't fit however.

Wtf does that mean though? Face didn’t fit what?

Inyournightgarden · 07/12/2022 20:51

At my sons primary school the head has 3 of his own kids across 3 different year groups.

amazingly they are selected for EVERYTHING. They are the best speakers, singers, athletes, mathematicians etc.

btu they aren’t, they just share his last name. Everyone can see it, it’s discussed openly by parents but none will challenge the school because although he comes across as mr nicey the teachers are all terrified of him

ancientgran · 07/12/2022 20:52

tobee · 07/12/2022 20:45

My dd (who also happens to be autistic so you can't predict/generalise) had a very good reading voice and was often picked to narrate for nativity, Mother's Day assembly etc., got lots of laughs reading a funny poem etc. Yet I still felt parts were poorly distributed even though dd benefited from this. So the idea that it's ghastly, pushy parents and poor teachers or whatever isn't always the case.

It's nice to see all the kids getting involved ime.

One of my GSs always had the leading boy's role in every school play through primary, he wasn't interested but did it and was good at it but I did feel it was unfair. It would have been good for him to not be the star of the show, you know learn how to deal with that for at least one year.

Goldenbear · 07/12/2022 20:53

Pumperthepumper, well I think particularly at infant school age, it is important to engage the parents and not be so serious about it all, they are little kids and mostly cute and what is wrong with wanting the parents to be happy to see their child performing in something only put on once a year! I think we have been incredibly fortunate as my DC had a very good music teacher that was great, happy and was seemingly pleased to engage the parents. I went to prep school and that's what it was like for me in our school performances.

ancientgran · 07/12/2022 20:53

Inyournightgarden · 07/12/2022 20:51

At my sons primary school the head has 3 of his own kids across 3 different year groups.

amazingly they are selected for EVERYTHING. They are the best speakers, singers, athletes, mathematicians etc.

btu they aren’t, they just share his last name. Everyone can see it, it’s discussed openly by parents but none will challenge the school because although he comes across as mr nicey the teachers are all terrified of him

Yes we used to have a saying when parts were handed out, "you only get a big part if your surname is X" Sad for the teachers if they are being bullied into it.

TheaBrandt · 07/12/2022 20:54

Great post Nosie. My mother was a primary teacher - her issue was always Joseph no boy ever wanted to do it - having to stand with a girl rather than be a shepherd or a king with your mates is a hard sell… 😁

crochetmonkey74 · 07/12/2022 20:56

Pumperthepumper · 07/12/2022 20:51

Wtf does that mean though? Face didn’t fit what?

There's a certain type of person who believes they are the centre of all teachers attention, it's really wearing. I've worked at the same school for years and regularly see ex students when they bring their kids to open evenings and things. The number of times we have heard "I was terrible at school and all the teachers hated me"
This will be from totally normal, nice kids who were nothing of the sort. It's a strange phenomenon that we can't quite work out.

Pumperthepumper · 07/12/2022 20:57

Goldenbear · 07/12/2022 20:53

Pumperthepumper, well I think particularly at infant school age, it is important to engage the parents and not be so serious about it all, they are little kids and mostly cute and what is wrong with wanting the parents to be happy to see their child performing in something only put on once a year! I think we have been incredibly fortunate as my DC had a very good music teacher that was great, happy and was seemingly pleased to engage the parents. I went to prep school and that's what it was like for me in our school performances.

Because education shouldn’t - at any point - centre the parent over the child. Making parents happy is completely irrelevant.

viques · 07/12/2022 20:59

Cherrysherbet · 07/12/2022 20:05

The teachers only want the confident kids in the best parts. The ones that would love to have a go, don’t get the opportunity. They have to sit on the sidelines bored shitless. I’ve seen it time and time again.

Last year (yr6) My dd was off sick for one day when the parts were given out and the teacher forgot her completely. She ended up just sitting at the back of the choir, not on the stage at all. She told me the part she would have liked, but the teacher never even bothered to ask her.

Bad teaching. Lazy teaching.

I’m so glad she has left primary now.

Thank fuck I don’t have to sit through anymore boring bloody plays. The same kids dominating them for 7 yrs running. It’s like they push their favourite kids in your face and you have to sit and admire them. Its so cringeworthy.

So damn the eyes of the child who was offered and took the part your child wanted. Selfish little critter should have immediately apologised and given the part back.

stayingaliveisawayoflife · 07/12/2022 21:06

Anyone else play the chime bars in the school play? I had A and D and was very proud! Altogether now

It was on a starry night, when the hills were bright.....

saraclara · 07/12/2022 21:06

for the nativity the tallest dark haired boy and girl were Mary and Joseph, the tallest blonde boy and girl were the Star of Bethlehem and Angel Gabriel etc.

And you think that's more fair than the alternatives, @ancientgran ? Seriously?

I was the shortest child in every class I was in, from aged 5-18. So I'd certainly not be happy with being ruled out due to something I had absolutely no control over.

antelopevalley · 07/12/2022 21:06

OnlyFannys · 07/12/2022 18:49

My ds desperately wanted a good part and he got one bloody line 🙄 the usual favourites got the big part its ridiculous

This has been my experience as well.