To think colleague should have asked if I wanted Christmas off before she booked it off?

[SulkySam]

AIBU to be a bit pissed off colleague booked this Christmas off when she had last Christmas off too? Isn’t it the polite thing to alternate having it off.

I started in role in September last year and she’d already booked off for last year before I started. Absolutely fine.

For this year she mentioned in conversation she’d booked it off, told me it had been approved as if it was fait accompli. No discussion and as it had already been approved there wasn’t much I could say! Quite pissed off manager just approved it as well.

Obviously I’ve know for a few months now but it is still making me seethe! She is an older lady, no DC while I have 5 DC including two disabled children.

Of course that doesn’t mean I have priority over her having time off for Christmas (just to make that clear before someone jumps on it) but isn’t it usual etiquette to take turns?

Thank goodness that's not the case then!
People without children but with partners tied to school holidays or industrial shut downs would never have been able to go away. And how could parents would no longer still working there when return the favour? I had young children but would never have expected my colleagues to be discriminated against to support my life style choice.

Sounds like a shit book tbh. I imagine that system has been challenged and changed, because it should have been.

Doing that will highlight OP as petty and vindictive, if not a bully. That’s just as likely to backfire on OP and see her dismissed from her role as ‘the problem’.

I think she is being very selfish given that she has no kids, but your manager is also being a twat. Book it next year asap. Does she book all the big holidays off?

YABU not to have booked it at the first opportunity if you wanted it. I manage a (small) team and early each year I'll remind them all at once that if they have designs on being off for Christmas that it's first come first served and to get their requests in.

We are lucky in that we only need 1 person to be in between Christmas and New Year and we haven't yet had an issue with everyone wanting to be off at the same time.

Yabu. Completely.
If you wanted it off, you should have got in there first.
Having kids is irrelevant to who gets Christmas day off. And I say that as a parent.

Of course it makes a difference that you have five children and she has none. When my kids were young it was lovely having time with them at Christmas. Now they’re older I wouldn’t dream of hogging Christmas from parents.

asking on here will get you mostly glib replies from the keyboard warriors - you snooze you lose - in real life I’m sure they’d sympathise with you - because that’s how DECENT people behave. 🤨

Of course it makes a difference that you have five children and she has none. When my kids were young it was lovely having time with them at Christmas. Now they’re older I wouldn’t dream of hogging Christmas from parents.

And where does that leave the permanently childless? Are they never to be allowed to have Christmas off?

What would your colleague say if you said you were going to book the next two Christmases off, because she has had last year and this year, @SulkySam? If she would be OK with it, I'd say "OK, let's do that then, and then go to turn and turn about after that". But if she says it's not fair, then point out it is equally unfair that she is going to have two Christmases off on the trot.

Then send an email to your manager claiming that this is unfair.

Now they’re older I wouldn’t dream of hogging Christmas from parents.

Of course you wouldn’t, because you benefitted from a taking turns system. What you’re saying is that childless people should never have Christmas off. Do you really think that’s OK?

Hogging from parents, for goodness sake. As if Christmas is literally just about children and nobody celebrates it except parents of primary school kids!

I would say it’s selfish, if you’re in a small team you should be discussing leave so you don’t clash and can try to accommodate each other, that’s literally what teamwork is all about!

It is frustrating that your manager hasn’t picked up on this and made sure the christmas leave is fair.

I’d book it off as soon as I could for next year if I were you, but make sure it doesn’t end up as a battle between you and your colleague as that’s no way to work either, talk to her and tell her that you’ll be booking next Christmas off as you’v done the last two (last year and now this year.) Potentially she feels entitled to it as maybe the person before you took every Christmas off as well, but she should still be communicating with you.

I think it's awful to prioritise parents (and I am one!). What about people who can't have children, or have lost their child, or just live far away from family, or are grieving, or do community work, or a whole multitude of other reasons.

Yup!

Decent people realise that it's not only parents who have families and that Christmas is a celebration for all. Some Parents need to stop feeling so entitled

Honestly don't get this first come come first served crap. If you're off ill, on leave, in a meeting, on a call you lose out. Should be managed via the manager who asks for people's preferences and keeps track of previous years.

Decent people realise that it's not only parents who have families and that Christmas is a celebration for all. Some Parents need to stop feeling so entitled

Absolutely people wonder why people find a lot of parents of children annoying, its because of shit like this where they think the world revolves around them and everyone should bend to their will, the fact is the Take Take doesn't just stop at Christmas it's all year round.

Unless there is some huge issue such as your colleague has a bereavement last Christmas and this is the anniversary, Your colleague is thoughtless and rubbish. At my work we sit down together and plan will the big holidays and agree a mutually agreeable plan. If there are 2 of you then you should alternate. I hate this attitude of you were too slow, she has the right to do what she wants. Where is compromise and compassion. Your manager shouldn't have to lay down the law on this, common decency and goodwill to colleagues should lead to people talking to each other and planning it. Maybe try and book next year now.

Mumsnetters are notoriously down on anyone who mentions kids and Christmas leave in the same post let alone the same line so you were naive to put that in. Apparently if you do, you are a devilishly selfish person and think you are better and more deserving than childless people.

Funny, becase that's exactly what @SulkySam said, and I quote from her OP: "She is an older lady, no DC while I have 5 DC including two disabled children."

Mumsnetters are not down on women with children at Christmas. But they are down on blaming other women and posters behaving as if the basic function of reproduction is something so special that everyone else must give way.

It doesn’t though. OP’s children are her concern, not her coworker’s. Any problems OP has with childcare are hers, and not for anyone else to solve for her.

the company obviously operates a first come first served policy, so why would the coworker check with OP, rather than just submit her leave requests like she’s always done?

The kids part is irrelevant. Your kids are not your colleague's problem and even child-free people tend to like days off around xmas.

Given you have five children it's likely that you were a parent or at least pregnant before you started this job last September (unless you've had quintuplets or something). So if time off at Christmas was that important, why didn't you check with the employer what the policy was before now? I refuse to work at Christmas so I only take roles where the employer shuts down over the festive period. Maybe I can get more money elsewhere but that's the decision I've made, being able to guarantee Christmas Eve to New Year's Day off every year is worth more than a few extra quid every month.

I don't think your colleague has done anything wrong, if you don't like the first come first served system you either need to persuade your employer to change it or find a role which suits you.

Where I would draw a line would be if someone had pre-booked Christmas off for the next few years. But if they're doing it year by year, you have the same opportunity to get in first that they do.

I expect I'll be flamed but I actually think it's fairer that those with young children (let's say primary aged and below) get Christmas off over others with older / adult/ no children if they celebrate Christmas for religious reasons.

If you got flamed for that it would be because it's a shit opinion.

The ‘usual etiquette’ for xmas leave is, I’m afraid, to book it as far in advance as is humanly possible, trampling over your colleagues in your rush to get it approved, and to be completely selfish about it. I’ve never worked anywhere that people would politely take turns. No one does that.

A good manager will spot this problem coming and will not approve a request for leave in December until it’s been discussed with all team members what is fair. A bad manager will simply approve whoever asks first. Sounds like you have a bad manager. Suggest you get your leave requests in for December 2023 and 2024 in right now.