It’s a dog one. Who was being unreasonable?

[Ohhelpicantthinkofaname]

So, I own a friendly, if slightly mad medium sized dog.

today we were out on a walk and was heading back up a footpath with a stream to the side. Most people have their dogs off the lead along this path, it’s nothing unusual.

so I’m walking up the path and my dog is a little way ahead. A child approx 20+ meters away see my dog, screams and runs back to his mum. The child is probably 7-9 years old. I call my dog back so she’s near me.

A man who was with them and I think a friend rather than the child’s father comes up to me and says “that child is scared of dogs”. I reply “ok, well my dog likes kids, but I’ll take her over here” and walked over to where the stream was a threw her ball in so she would just play and ignore them as they walked by.

the man gave me the filthiest look and mutter some choice things about me under his breath.

to my mind it’s better for a child with a fear of dogs to see a dog at a safe distance minding its own business, rather than me panicking and rushing to put it back on the lead, making it seem like there really is something to fear. My dog has good recall and I trusted her not to cause an issue. Also at that child’s age I would have thought some exposure to dogs to try and address what is clearly quite a serious fear would be a good thing, rather than feeding into it by trying to ensure he doesn’t encounter any dogs.

so was I unreasonable for not putting my dog straight back on the lead, and the man was justified for his glaring and muttered insults. Or is it fine to keep her off the lead, occupied and at a safe distance?

The kid passed by without incident btw. If I though my dogs would have actually done anything she would have been on the lead.

If only it was an irrational fear.

Look at the number of helpless hopeless dog owners on MN who don't have a clue. What must it be like to meet their dogs on a walk? Some of them seem unable to control their dogs on a leash or off.

I'd say it was good judgement a fair proportion of the time and anyone who thinks otherwise has forgotten what it's like to be two feet tall.

But this whole thread is about the OP and her dog. And her dog wasn't running around.

Yes, their pho is is irrational, but they are old enough to work on their fears in a rational way.

Are you for real? Even your casual truncating of the word "phobia" is minimising.

So, I own a friendly, if slightly mad medium sized dog.

Slightly mad? But everyone should just "work on their fears" when it looms up at them, off leash?

Wait for it.....
Any minute now we'll have the post about how they should all be muzzled in public.

we have kid only spaces on small parks for children to play in, free from the risk of dog poo and fenced so toddlers cannot do a disappearing act.

No. Children are not animals that can exercise by running around in circles in a man-made space. They also need to be able to run along paths, enjoy nature free of dog waste (pick it up) and get out and about.

You're not going to pen little human beings on the basis that dogs own the rest. Let's turn that around. Children's mental health can come first and dogs are more than welcome with good recall and appropriate leashing.

Why? Are you afraid your dog will bite? I can assure you that children know the difference between a dog on the lead and not. A muzzle would not be helpful to their experience or necessary, I would hope.

No, just anticipating the next round of shouty rants from the YABU bunch

And anyway, i wasn't talking about the dogs. It's the screaming kids should be muzzled......

I mean, surely it should be 50/50? There are MANY spaces for kids to play and run around and exercise, whereas this isn’t so much the case for our canine friends.

We should have spaces for both at equal measure. I hate to break it to you, but dogs matter too 😀

We live in Canada

As the owner of a dog with perfect recall thanks to years of dedicated work, I don't see the conflict. Your premises is unfounded. Dogs matter enough to be trained because that way everyone is happy, see? I highly doubt that child would be afraid of dogs if many dog owners took their commitment seriously. A dog is not a fur baby or a cute accessory. It's a live animal that needs careful work and conditioning to be able to live in a community. Just like children.

I hate to break it to you, but if you can't pick up after your dog, call it and leash it, you shouldn't be roaming anymore than a child who is free to rush up to dogs on a leash! Play nice, it's easy. Or don't get a dog!

premise

YABVU for the way how you write here - assuming what is "healthier for the child" and suggesting that your offlead dog is somehow helping them.

Of course that every unknown dog is a danger. Pretending anything else is just a wishful thinking.

I love these threads, people are crazy - my favourite is the poster who lists “they pee everywhere” as a reason for being scared of dogs 😬. In the nicest possible way, get a grip on yourself.

I’m guessing the reality of the situation here is that you and countless other dog walkers visit that area on a very regular basis hail, rain or shine. Enter child with phobia out on a rare walk and you are the one at fault for daring to have your dog, who couldn’t have been less bothered, off of her lead in an area you both know well and which is known for off lead dog behaviour walking.

I hate this attitude that humans have more right to the outdoors than animals. What else has to be shut away or kept from sharing areas that humans might want to walk - sheep, cows, horses? God forbid the screaming child encounters a bad tempered swan or an opportunistic seagull.

Your dog was under control, that’s where your obligation ends in my view. If the child is going to scream and cause a drama over a dog that’s showing no interest and is nowhere near them, then the parents need to work
on this before putting their child in a scenario where seeing a dog is likely.

child with phobia out on a rare walk

Why is it rare? Is it rare because said child was leapt on by a dog who has the misfortune of having a clueless, irresponsible owner and now walks are a misery wondering if it will happen again? Dog walkers should not think they have the corner on any green space unless specifically designated. That is, they should prevent their dog causing distress by having it trained, as we would expect a child to be. There is a reason why children with phobias of dogs have such fears and a reason why walks are a misery for them. It is sickening to think that dog owners think they have a right to that space more because they dominate them. Just get your dog to come back to you and leash it for a few minutes. It's very, very basic and you shouldn't have a dog if you can't do it. There should be an exam to be a dog owner. So many people are rubbish at it and expect others to make space. Exactly the same people who think children should shut up in cafes, IMO. I like both dogs and children. I train both so they can have a wider range of experiences. If my child won't come back they're not getting out of range either!

I’m guessing the reality of the situation here is that you and countless other dog walkers visit that area on a very regular basis hail, rain or shine. Enter child with phobia out on a rare walk and you are the one at fault for daring to have your dog, who couldn’t have been less bothered, off of her lead in an area you both know well and which is known for off lead dog behaviour walking.

Nice fan-fiction!

Well, they don’t matter too – certainly not equally. 50:50 is madness. They’re dogs.

Er...

But we DO have kid only spaces in small parks, with swings and wotnot in them, fenced off to keep out dogs and keep in zoomy toddlers, so parents can let them play without having to hover over them.

I'm stating a fact here - not suggesting children should only be permitted in such spaces and not anywhere else. This was in answer to the idea dogs should only be permitted off lead in fenced in 'dog parks', which we do not have in the UK.

Of course kids can share spaces with everyone else, everywhere else.

When a child is assessed for autism one of the questions is something like are they afraid of dogs. Just like you know your dog - this person knows the child they are looking after. You don’t get to decide it’s better for the child to see a dog off lead not reacting. You don’t get to decide the child seems old enough to play alone soon. It would have been easier to just put him on a leas then move away and play ball. Sounds like you are deciding what is best for this child who you don’t know

we have kid only spaces on small parks for children to play in, free from the risk of dog poo and fenced so toddlers cannot do a disappearing act.

Based on a recent post dog owners felt entitled to let their dog run around off lead even in a gated kids playground.

YANBU and you did nothing wrong. Man was a dick for being so rude. Taking a child scared of dogs to a known dog walking area was their call. Not your issue to worry about and your dog just got on with it.

I recall a couple walking towards us once and we had our three dogs, all on lead as we were near the car park. She started screaming hysterically and the man she was with said hey she's scared of Dogs. Well good luck on your walk then because it's a forest full of them! Ridiculous behaviour.

I love a dog as much as the next person, but they idea that they matter an equal amount to human children seems a little odd to me...

And regarding dog parks and no-dog parks, I live in the middle of nowhere and we actually do have several enclosed "dog parks" near by, some even having a fair bit of woodland.

We also have a large recreation ground in the village that has banned dogs. It's amazing for kids, there's a playpark but also a really large area to run around and play. Kids sports clubs use it too. Dogs have been banned for years. The rec is fully fenced and there's really clear signage banning dogs. There's no shortage of other, nicer places to walk your dog in walking distance of the rec. Yet what do you constantly see? People taking their dogs on the bloody rec! Most of them are quite nasty when challenged, too. There's always dog mess on the rec to top it off.

That's bang out of order in a designated place.

We don't have dog parks in the UK. We have private hire secure dog fields which are patchy in their locations and can be expensive.

I've never heard of a public space provided for dogs. That said, if owners do carry on being irresponsible (I have a dog and am increasingly cross at the poor training and lack of poo picking up) that maybe it'll have to happen.

That said, at least the dogs aren't roaming the streets like they are in many parts of the world. Lord only knows what dog terrified kids do there. Maybe they just learn to get over it.

Again as a matter of info WiddlinDiddlin there definitely are dog parks in the UK. Not the for hire dog runs, actual areas in public spaces fenced off for dog owners to come and let their dog off lead. There are two near me.

They are every bit as detrimental as you say, but they do exist.

GuyFawkesDay there absolutely are dog parks, I'm based in Scotland and know of at least 2 locally that are part of larger public parks but have been sectioned off for the use of dog owners for free. They are nightmares for creating poorly socialised dogs.

I also know of one dog owner who tried to get the council to put a sign up saying children should be supervised because of the amount of parents who let their children into the park to "play" with the dogs. Local council said no to that, but do come in and manage the land (filling in the huge holes dug by the dogs).