To ask my colleague to withdraw christmas holiday request.

[Jessiejuju]

OK I feel terrible about this but me and my colleague who I get on with quite well normally have both requested Xmas day off but our manager has said that only one of us can have it off and that we need to sort ot out.I have asked her to withdraw her request as her and her husband they have no kids normally go to her husbands parents on Xmas day but they also go everyweek so it's not like they never see them where as I on the other hand have a 4 year old Autistic son he normaly goes to nursery but his nursery closes 1 week before christmas and doesn't open until next year the shift in question is a 3 hour shift between 7 and 10 in the morning so she and her husband could still be at his parents for lunch time where as because I am a single mama and the nurseries are closed I have no one to watch my son yes I could pay someone but it would be extremely expensive and he would most likely be very distressed with having someone he is unfamiliar with in his home plus it would be difficult for said person as my son is non verbal.
I do feel bad asking her to do this but if she won't then I am going to have no choice but to leave my job.

Why would she? Presumably if she was told the OP is getting Christmas Day off then she'll need to work & she will. The OP is only being threatened with disciplinary action because she's said she's not coming in regardless who's given the day off

Your manager is shit.

Honestly I'd take the disciplinary. I doubt it will stand up anyway. What does the disciplinary even mean? A warning?

Just tell them you can't do the shift.

It is not exactly best practice HR to not give flexibility to parents- ridiculous and regressive!

But you had no idea when you conceived if you child would or even would be able to contribute to taxes all this "I'm saving the future, one baby at a time, revere my uterus" is a bit much. Yes we need people having children who will become future brain surgeons and bin men, but we also need not everyone to go o nand have 5 kids be they brain surgeons or bin men because the world couldn't handle the population increase. Those friends without kids have markedly used less NHS resources than me through two pregnancies, three kids one of whom used a lot of NHS in his early years, they don't use education services, if they lose their job they'll be entitled to less benefits, statistically without numerous career breaks they're earning more then their parenting peers

You need to draw strings, surely you aren't that entitled to think that you should get it just because you have children?

Nope

@FelizNavicrab yes you are. You're saying she should pull out the discrimination card, which this clearly isn't a case of. It's first come first served and OP wasn't first.

My decision not to have children when I didn't want them, and then to have then when I did, had absolutely fuck all to do with my interest in creating future taxpayers.

I really doubt it was many people's primary concern.

The concession was probably made because actually getting decent care staff is very hard. They aren’t doing her a favour by offering her a job. I doubt they did it out of the goodness of their hearts. It would have been because either they cover some extra weekend shifts or they are potentially short staffed or paying agency staff to cover all her shifts. It’s just good business sense to be flexible.

This really isn’t the point of the thread but PP’s kids will need to be higher rate taxpayers and possibly childless themselves in order to prove a net financial benefit (rather than net financial drain) on society. Just paying tax doesn’t in and of itself offset the financial implications of a person’s childhood healthcare and education, and given how many working adults are now receiving benefits, it’s arguable that many kids will grow up to be a drain rather than a benefit.

That’s not to say that we won’t need people to do jobs (although with automation even that is somewhat debatable), but my point is that most parents assume their kids are going to be of overall financial benefit, when in reality a fair chunk of them aren’t.

Which is fine because nobody has kids to benefit society but please stop acting like you’re doing the rest of us a massive favour and we’re consequently forever indebted to your uterus.

OP isn't being unreasonable, but the amount of people calling a childless woman a bitch for not being happy to participate in co-parenting some random person's child (whilst the actual parent of that child gets to sod off, apparently) is just ridiculous to me.

Me too, @HerMajestysRoyalCoven

And as the OP tells us, the 'facts' of the matter are that the OP was NOT given leave for her Christmas Day shift. But remains adamant that because her colleague does not have children, her colleague should give up her leave.

That is what is totally unreasonable.

I am really not. Please don't tell me what I am saying because you are not correct.

I am providing some links the OP may find useful, depending on the nuances of the situation.

Fwiw I am the childless one who has the lifetime experience of being asked to work Xmas to cover for parents etc.

I don't think the colleague should be discriminated against.

I think the employer should make sure they do not inadvertently discriminating against the OP. For example telling them to sort it out among themselves but then only disciplining one of them for not working Xmas.

If they have approved the colleague's leave there is nothing to sort out among them. It is already approved.

If they have not, then they need to be fair to both parties and not just discipline one.

What's more, I am providing links because I think there is a risk the OP may be steered down the ring legal route. I was hoping the links would provide clearer guidance on what is right/wrong about her specific situation.

….the colleague is not being incredibly selfish, other peoples’s family situations are non of her business.

You choose to have children, you choose to work in a job with shifts and bank holidays, if it’s not doable you choose a different job in the first place.
The one question we haven’t had confirmed OP is whether the colleague had been actually granted the Christmas Day leave already ? And when it was confirmed. If it hasn’t been allocated either, then it’s absolutely up to the manager to deal with, not putting it back on the staff. Which is it ?

If you genuinely think that guaranteeing parents Christmas off will limit crime and poverty then you are not looking for the right solution

Some people are acting like the biggest shocker of the thread is that someone without children but with their own commitments is unable to cancel a day's leave they booked 8 months ago.

To me the biggest shocker of the thread (not that it comes as a shock but it is a terrible fact) is that someone working 3 hours in a care home on Christmas day will only be paid £35

You want to reduce poverty (and therefore crime) fix that. It will be far more beneficial to the Op and others like her for her to be paid a better wage than be guaranteed one specific day off a year.

As will subsidised childcare, more available respite for children with disabilities, children centres, a better funded education system, a better funded and staffed social services. All of that is actually more important than decided by law whether people without children are allowed christmas day off again.

Just out of interest op, is your manager working? Otherwise he should step in and do your shift.

In a care role that sounds like quite a concession, especially since it'll mean the extra weekend shifts are falling on others, so with all your other days being okay'ed those others may start wondering just how much more you're going to want

There will be others who find weekend and evening shifts easier as they can get a partner to cover childcare.

It is up to each individual to set the boundaries that make sense for themselves and the company to decide if hiring the person makes sense on that basis.

There is a huge shortage of care workers so if OP loses her job after explaining she needs to care for her disabled child she should be able to easily pick another one up after Christmas.

I think you have done everything you could.
You have worked xmas day and other holidays previously.
You have given them plenty of notice of your needs this year and have explained the reasons for your request.

Stay calm, firm and polite. You will not be able to work this shift. You have offered an alternative option. If they choose to discipline you then that is regrettable but you still will be unable to work the shift. Personally I would not be trying to find cover for it by pestering your colleague. Your manager needs to deal with it. It should have been dealt with before now.

I would also put all this clearly in writing and then leave them to it.

Which is fine because nobody has kids to benefit society but please stop acting like you’re doing the rest of us a massive favour and we’re consequently forever indebted to your uterus.

Hear, hear!

If you read my posts you would see the context that led to me stating that- these threads go tjje same way, the suggestion that you are 'entitled' if as a parent you expect some flexibility, I mean we have regressed politically 100 years if we think that! It's equally entitled to expect future generations that have been brought up by those oh so grabby parents to keep the economy strong, to provide and maintain the infrastructure, to do the physical work older people are no longer capable of doing. The motivations people have to reproduce are irrelevant, the 'facts' are what is important. Why statically are your peers earning more because it is so flipping hard to work with young children in this country- oh the irony!

Take the disciplinary OP. Your boss needs you more than you need them. Your manager won’t be able to replace you as quickly as you can walk into a new job.

Even if it wouldn’t be completely out of order of you, it’s not your job to work out leave requests between employees. Your manager is completely useless, this is their problem to solve. They get paid extra for managing and having to take the crap that goes along with it.

You have no more entitlement to the day of than your colleague does.

No fucking way

So what if you'd never had children then would you be just as happy to never ever get Christmas off? Let's be honest here OP's childcare at Christmas problem is not going to go away, if OP's colleague backs down now then she'd be de facto agreeing to never ever getting another Christmas Day off as long as she works with OP as OP's needs will always be greater, that's really shit and unfair too.

Sorry but your family is not your bosses or your colleague's problem.

It's a jobseeker's market at the moment and I reckon that the employer would end up regretting losing someone after 4 years more than the OP who could well find a new job pretty quickly.

It’s not unusual for a manager to leave to the team to sort days off at Christmas. My manager used to do it with my team of 4. We sorted out between us who needed what day off and for 5 years it worked perfectly.

I think sorry the Op is in this situation but unfortunately the business needs come first. If she needs to leave then so be it but will probably land her colleague in the shit who will be made to cover for her.