To ask my colleague to withdraw christmas holiday request.

[Jessiejuju]

OK I feel terrible about this but me and my colleague who I get on with quite well normally have both requested Xmas day off but our manager has said that only one of us can have it off and that we need to sort ot out.I have asked her to withdraw her request as her and her husband they have no kids normally go to her husbands parents on Xmas day but they also go everyweek so it's not like they never see them where as I on the other hand have a 4 year old Autistic son he normaly goes to nursery but his nursery closes 1 week before christmas and doesn't open until next year the shift in question is a 3 hour shift between 7 and 10 in the morning so she and her husband could still be at his parents for lunch time where as because I am a single mama and the nurseries are closed I have no one to watch my son yes I could pay someone but it would be extremely expensive and he would most likely be very distressed with having someone he is unfamiliar with in his home plus it would be difficult for said person as my son is non verbal.
I do feel bad asking her to do this but if she won't then I am going to have no choice but to leave my job.

What’s the betting she will be in a position to clock off at 10am on the dot anyway, it will probably be longer.

Is your manager threatening disciplinary action for the other colleague?

I'm a teacher in a school for children with autism and we have residential homes attached. We'd much rather work with our good staff to keep them than lose them because of things beyond their control. We have a good relationship with the agencies around us because we need them. We have 60+ vacancies across 2 schools and 6 homes.

Take the threat of disciplinary and find yourself a new job!!

@Jessiejuju the management are not doing their job and sound incompetent. Surely even if you both requested on the same day one of you must have been first, even by minutes. Are there no other staff working the next shift or earlier shift who aren’t fussed on Christmas and would be happy for the 3 extra hours?
As someone else suggested earlier try and get a job as a teaching assistant so you have holidays and weekends, your background in care will be great for this especially in an ASN setting. I work in ASN and can be very difficult to get TAs as often they come and are shocked at the level of needs and behaviours. Had a few walk outs on day 1.
I do understand why your colleague doesn’t want to come in though it’s Christmas and I think majority of people would like the whole day off if they could.

I have no kids but it doesn't mean I don't have Xmas plans. However I would be very sympathetic to your particular circumstances, more so as your child is SN.

Your manager is passing the buck though and must have known this would be an issue if you booked your leave in April! Is the manager working that day or have they just decided to take it off hence the last minute problem?

I can see why your colleague wouldnt want to come in for one day especially when she is also on holiday,
What will you do OP? just ride it out and weather the storm?
As least you will have a good opportunity to explain why exactly up couldn't work on christmas day

Or will you resign?

No, it suggests they pull out the stops for people "in a real pickle". And also that they ask the team to cover.

It's the business's responsibility to provide reasonable adjustments for people who care for disabled children. Otherwise they could very likely be guilty of unlawful discrimination.

The OP is not "in a pickle". She has a right in law to be accommodated by her employer (not her colleagues). Not patronised.

A manager should know this.

But as people have said the OP knew since April that she wasn't getting Christmas Day off from what she has posted. It is a bit late now going balls to the wall sorting it out. Maybe her colleague has a nice Xmas eve booked for all the posters saying how selfish she is.

OP isn't being unreasonable, but the amount of people calling a childless woman a bitch for not being happy to participate in co-parenting some random person's child (whilst the actual parent of that child gets to sod off, apparently) is just ridiculous to me

Indeed. Yet another thread on MN where the useless father has left the mum in the doo-doo.

I don't know - i totally get that it could be disability discrimination because of OP's child. But unless she was employed with the company knowing that she wants these adjustments, is it really discrimination or is it just bad management?

If I've understood it correctly, since OP's husband left, the company has made a reasonable adjustment that she doesn't work weekends. In something that has to give 24/7 cover, that is a big move, especially since those shifts presumably fall on the shoulders of the colleagues. OP may have understood that these weekends applied to Christmas day too, and also understood that the day off being allocated according to need applied to employee's needs rather than company needs.

It's a big hot mess, quite frankly. But. Bottom line? it is down to management to solve it.

I think the current situation seems to be that colleague has been granted the day off? if so, and she won't swap, then OP needs to ask other colleagues. If there are no other colleagues? OP needs to just keep telling her manager, in writing, that she cannot cover the shift because she has no childcare. Don't leave it to the last minute, just keep saying it. Make it clear that there is no way she can be there.

The best advice you've had in this thread, OP, although it probably can't help you in this instance, is to join a union. They can tell you how to approach things like this in future.

It's the business's responsibility to provide reasonable adjustments for people who care for disabled children. Otherwise they could very likely be guilty of unlawful discrimination

Yes but that can't be giving them first dibs on every holiday period. Otherwise nobody else in that department/team would ever get to get time off at Easter or Christmas.

I know MN doesn't like first come first served but it's the fairest system to me. If you need particular days you plan ahead and make sure you get them.

Prinnny
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I think it’s pretty shit a child free person wouldn’t offer to do an early morning shift, that doesn’t effect their plans, so a mum can spend Christmas morning with her young child

Well I think it’s pretty shit that a parent has walked away from his child and is doing nothing to help, yet a random unrelated woman is getting more insults on this thread and held to a higher expectation than he is.

You've had some very harsh responses on this thread OP. This isn't about valuing a parent's Christmas more than those without kids. It's about your very specific circumstances. I would do your 3 hour shift for you if I was your colleague, because it won't materially affect her Christmas Day but will make a huge difference to you and your son.

Your manager is (a) not "managing" the situation and (b) very short sighted if you're being threatened with a disciplinary, given your previous record and the fact that the care sector is in dire need of decent carers.

You are being unreasonable as you immediately made it about you having DC and not her. If you were reasonable, you could have suggested to offer to cover one of her shifts/days if she works at Xmas, if possible .. On the otherhand I would check the legality of a Manager denying leave for any employee once it has been approved, as I'm fairly sure it would be frowned upon if it ever went to Tribunal.

How do you know it won't affect the colleague? You have have no idea what her colleague is dealing with behind closed doors. None at all and if the colleague isn't disclosing personal information at work then neither does OP.

Email your manager and HR team (and cc your colleague and union rep if possible) that you will get a disciplinary based on you not cancelling a Christmas Day holiday, booked in April, to care for your disabled son. In the email ask why the manager cannot cover the shift himself / bring in temp staff & ask what the manager’s plan would have been had you and your colleague both needed to be sick. And express your concerns about the running of the company if they can’t plan for sickness.

Do this elequently enough (and in writing) and the manager will find a solution.

Why would she do that? It would be inaccurate. She was never actually granted leave for Christmas Day. The day was requested, that’s all.

The right to reasonable adjustment does not extend to carers. The Court of Appeal clarified about 10 years ago.

OP. Some good guides on the law are:

workingfamilies.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/20-11-27-Balancing-work-and-caring-FINAL.pdf

councilfordisabledchildren.org.uk.testing.effusion3.dh.bytemark.co.uk/sites/default/files/field/attachemnt/parents__guide-employment.pdf

workingfamilies.org.uk/articles/time-off-work/

I'm wondering this too? As far as I've read it, neither have been granted the day off, they've both been told to sort it out, but OP has been told that if she doesn't agree to work it, then she'll be disciplined? Is your colleague not going to be disciplined too?

How are your holidays requested @Jessiejuju ?

To add, a nice guide that clarifies the point re discrimination being illegal - even though the right to reasonable adjustment does not apply:

workingfamilies.org.uk/articles/flexible-working-and-the-law-a-guide-for-employees/

"It is unlawful to treat someone less favourably because they are associated with someone else who has a disability. For example, if a parent of a disabled child is treated less favourably than parent of non-disabled children becuase they have a disabled child.

For instance, in Coleman v Attridge Law, the employer did not allow Ms Coleman the same flexibility to look after her disabled son as they did her colleagues who were parents of non-disabled children. She was described as lazy when she requested time off to look after her son whereas the other parents were not."

This may well help when looking at how your colleague is treated vs you?

Don't CC the colleague, guilt tripping is never a good idea.

Yes I’m thinking this is the case as well, your co worker got in first with the Christmas Day shift which is why they could only grant your leave except that day. Why has it taken up to now to realise this, if you applied in April, you’ve had all year to address it.

SleepingStandingUp, statistically what's the likelihood of that though, it is not going to be the case, the fact is that a majority of children do go on to work and pay taxes! Respectfully, if your children are under 10 then envisioning them as working adults is hard to do as their ambitions will be as far fetched as you describe, when you have teenagers that are approaching young adulthood, they have largely highly predicted grades at GCSEs and A levels, they are having those conversations with you about what they think they may want to do as a job, you know you as parents face a hefty, means tested bill for their uni accommodation in a couple of years time, their friends are in a similar position; frankly your suggestion of 'no contribution' is irrational and trying to deflect from the serious issue of what we want our society to look like and how we think we are going too achieve that if we simply give no priority to the outcomes of children and pretend that parental working rights has nothing to do with that.

@FelizNavicrab so you're saying her COLLEAGUE should be discriminated against because she HASN'T got a disabled child?

I don't think you were being unreasonable to ask, I'd have definitely helped out before I had kids.

How's that discrimination?