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AIBU?

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Original poster

To ask my colleague to withdraw christmas holiday request.

1000 replies

Jessiejuju · 05/12/2022 09:17

OK I feel terrible about this but me and my colleague who I get on with quite well normally have both requested Xmas day off but our manager has said that only one of us can have it off and that we need to sort ot out.I have asked her to withdraw her request as her and her husband they have no kids normally go to her husbands parents on Xmas day but they also go everyweek so it's not like they never see them where as I on the other hand have a 4 year old Autistic son he normaly goes to nursery but his nursery closes 1 week before christmas and doesn't open until next year the shift in question is a 3 hour shift between 7 and 10 in the morning so she and her husband could still be at his parents for lunch time where as because I am a single mama and the nurseries are closed I have no one to watch my son yes I could pay someone but it would be extremely expensive and he would most likely be very distressed with having someone he is unfamiliar with in his home plus it would be difficult for said person as my son is non verbal.
I do feel bad asking her to do this but if she won't then I am going to have no choice but to leave my job.

OP posts:
FTY765 · 05/12/2022 12:21

Goldenbear · 05/12/2022 11:47

SleeplessinEngland, the colleague told the OP that, she literally told her why they couldn't work the three hours, if it was a very sick relatives last Christmas or such like, the colleague would just say as it is a stronger argument, why are you afraid of labelling behaviour for what it is? Of course the bigger picture is relevant, if you don't have children but don't want to assist in bringing about a mutually beneficial society in the future, who is going to look after you when you need social care, how's making it as hard as possible going to benefit anyone- maybe get your head out of the sand!

Maybe the colleague doesn't want to give a "stronger argument". Maybe they have problems they don't want to share with colleagues. I do. Nobody at work knows my current situation. I don't give a fuck if they think I am selfish or whatever for not swapping shifts and not giving my, very personal, reasons to them to judge if my needs trump theirs or not.

icegoose · 05/12/2022 12:21

I would ask for carers leave if the holiday leave is being refused.
You can't leave a four year old child unsupervised and childcare is very difficult to find on Christmas Day.
The fact the child has disabilities makes it particularly difficult.

I think your colleague is being very unkind and your manager needs to manage the situation in a way that is actually going to work.

Dreamsoffreedomjoyandpeace · 05/12/2022 12:22

OP I totally disagree with most people here. I do think you have more right because your son is going to be very distressed and you can’t easily get childcare on Christmas Day.

I’m sure most people here will be happily opening their presents at that time - not at work worrying about their child spending Christmas morning in great distress. People on here have no empathy. Just ignore them OP.

SirMingeALot · 05/12/2022 12:22

Usually I am the first to argue that people without kids should get equal treatment over the holidays but in this case I literally don't see what more op could have done. I'd probably just look for another job tbh but if not I'd take the disciplinary and ask "exactly what should i have done to avoided this?" And make sure I had that noted on the records.

Same, but I think the fact that this is a child is something of a red herring here. The OPs position would be similar if she were sole carer for any high needs person whose usual provision that normally allows for her to work wasn't going to be available over Christmas. She wouldn't necessarily be able to come up with adult specialist care 20 days in advance either, much less pay for it on a carers wage.

Wife2b · 05/12/2022 12:22

Could you offer your colleague a Christmas bonus (gesture of good will) to cover your shift? Even if it were say £100 that would be less than childcare? Maybe she’ll see how desperate you are.

GUARDIAN1 · 05/12/2022 12:22

I think it comes down to who asked first, to be honest. This will always be an issue for you if you don't have any holiday childcare sorted out in advance. It wouldn't be fair for your colleague to be expected to work Christmas day every year, on the basis they don't have children. I do have children, BTW, and have also had to work Christmases and New Years etc in the past when I did shift work. It would be fair to decide that whoever gets Christmas day off this year must work it next year and then alternate every subsequent year if you still work there.

Do you not have any childcare sorted out for the rest of the Christmas and New Year break? I know it's really difficult, not to mention expensive, and will be especially so for your little one if he's impacted by ASD, but you will need to either arrange childcare going forwards or else find a job which can accommodate your childcare needs.

BellePeppa · 05/12/2022 12:23

I’ve heard many times that there are shortages in care workers so could you find another care job before any disciplinary action can take place (ie leave your current job before Christmas?).

FuckoffeeBeforeCoffee · 05/12/2022 12:23

Wife2b · 05/12/2022 12:22

Could you offer your colleague a Christmas bonus (gesture of good will) to cover your shift? Even if it were say £100 that would be less than childcare? Maybe she’ll see how desperate you are.

Are you fucking mental?

SleepingStandingUp · 05/12/2022 12:23

Icedlatteplease · 05/12/2022 12:14

That's the whole point

if the OP has a high needs SN child, your high needs SN child doesn't stop being a high needs SN child next Christmas, or the school holidays, or the time you would expect a high needs SN child to find themselves of school.

I don't know one single parent of a high needs SN child (middle rate DLA or higher) who could afford to work full time, practically unless they were very high earning enough for a nanny. I don't know Amy who would manage on a carers salary.

If the OP is close to minimum wage she is unlikely to be financially better off workingmore than 16 hours, especially if she rents her home. Frankly for my high needs child that 16 hours wasn't practical either.

I know this because the very first thing I did when I realised I had a high needs child was really do the sums and work out how I was going to care for this child sustainably.

The OP clearly hasn't done that.

Show quote history

Ops child is in nursery, she's had an agreement until last month to not work weekends, and her Mom helps out. What in that makes it sound like OP hasn't bothered thinking about how to meet her kids needs, or is clearly a troll? The situation has changed recently due to staff shortages. It's changed this Xmas cos her partner walked out.

FTY765 · 05/12/2022 12:24

If you know where your son’s grandmother lives why don’t you ask her for your exDP’s contact details and then approach him about looking after his own child for a couple of hours

Ah yes, the father who has ignored his kid for a year and who is probably unfamiliar to this child sounds like a stellar choice.

user1471447974 · 05/12/2022 12:24

DrMarciaFieldstone · 05/12/2022 12:12

It’s nothing to do with the colleague. If she’s been sleeping to swap and she’s said no, that’s it.

If the colleague swaps, the manager has got away with doing nothing, which was the problem in the first place.

Show quote history

Yes, I have said above that the colleague is within her rights to do this. It is objectively the selfish choice though.

The colleague can come in if they were forced to work on Christmas, they would be able to come in and no disciplinary. The OP can't come in whether she wanted to or not, so she will be disciplined. The colleague and the OP could escalate this situation together, but instead colleague has washed her hands of the situation as she is getting her way, has basically told the OP it is not her problem, and leaving the OP to deal with the consequences.

mum11970 · 05/12/2022 12:24

MINTYTULIP · 05/12/2022 12:18

Ah yeah what a good plan, the shit no contact dad will be a great alternative.

Show quote history

The OP says she hasn’t been in contact with him for a couple of months and they’ve been split up for almost a year, and gives no indication why that is? He may be a shit dad, she may be a mother being difficult or it may be another reason altogether, we don’t know.

MajorCarolDanvers · 05/12/2022 12:25

You are doing the right thing OP.

Hellno44 · 05/12/2022 12:27

Jessiejuju · 05/12/2022 11:31

Have spoken to my manager and told him that I won't be able to go in for the hours he needs me I offered to work later hours but apparently that's too awkward of me. I have worked there for almost a 4 years and have worked 2 Xmas days 3 boxing days 2 new years eves and a new year's day I have never booked off a Xmas day before and have tried to find child care but I can not really afford it and that's even if I could find someone willing to work who has the right experience
It's very clear that some of you have never spent time with a Autistic child before and know absolutely nothing about caring for a child who has limited understanding and physical care needs. Management have said I will be getting a disaplinary but sod them my kid needs me more than I need this job.
Also I understand it was not fair to ask her to withdraw her holiday the very first thing I said was I felt bad about the situation.
And yes I did choose to have a child
But I did not choose to have a disabled child and I certainly didn't choose for his dad to walk out on us, leaving me completely alone, I have very few family members who can help with my son as he is very hard work and a lot of my relatives are elderly or live far away.

Make sure you put everything in writing. Further to our recent conversation.....

Don't let the manager act like you didn't tell him or he wasn't aware.

SleeplessInEngland · 05/12/2022 12:28

user1471447974 · 05/12/2022 12:24

Yes, I have said above that the colleague is within her rights to do this. It is objectively the selfish choice though.

The colleague can come in if they were forced to work on Christmas, they would be able to come in and no disciplinary. The OP can't come in whether she wanted to or not, so she will be disciplined. The colleague and the OP could escalate this situation together, but instead colleague has washed her hands of the situation as she is getting her way, has basically told the OP it is not her problem, and leaving the OP to deal with the consequences.

Show quote history

By going into the semantics of selfishness and whether the colleague is committing it you're just letting the management off the hook, even after you say you know they're wrong too. The colleague should not be in this position any more than the OP.

Dreamsoffreedomjoyandpeace · 05/12/2022 12:28

Goldenbear · 05/12/2022 11:51

How's it entitled to want to be afforded some help in bringing up the future tax payers, you are entitled if you think parents should do this for the benefit of 'all' of society when they have contributed zero towards the future generation of workers.

Not disagreeing exactly but you do seem to think that humans are here just to work and pay tax!

ehb102 · 05/12/2022 12:29

Ask for carers' leave.
If you don't get it, say you aren't coming and take the disciplinary.

minipie · 05/12/2022 12:30

If you and colleague both put your requests in on the same day, I don’t understand why hers was approved and yours was “will be assessed nearer the time”?

MsRosley · 05/12/2022 12:30

You can't do it. You've told them all along you can't do it. You have extenuating circumstances. I'd escalate this as a complaint and tell them you're documenting everything and will be considering a case for constructive dismissal if they insist you do it.

FTY765 · 05/12/2022 12:30

Word of warning to OP- if you aren't already in a union, they will not get involved in ongoing disputes prior to membership. But definitely join on if you are not in one!

Scotty12 · 05/12/2022 12:31

This is a horrible situation OP. Lots of factors and views at play. I think you need to stand firm and not work xmas day - because you have a 4 year old who needs his mum on Xmas morning!

SirMingeALot · 05/12/2022 12:31

SleeplessInEngland · 05/12/2022 12:28

By going into the semantics of selfishness and whether the colleague is committing it you're just letting the management off the hook, even after you say you know they're wrong too. The colleague should not be in this position any more than the OP.

Show quote history

Definitely. This isn't the fault of either carer. It's an ongoing management failure.

FTY765 · 05/12/2022 12:32

minipie · 05/12/2022 12:30

If you and colleague both put your requests in on the same day, I don’t understand why hers was approved and yours was “will be assessed nearer the time”?

I would assume because OP already had CE, BD, NYE and NYD off through her block 2 week booking. Presumably nobody else had requested those days off, so there was no conflict.
(this is just a guess, no idea how OPs company works!)

Goldenbear · 05/12/2022 12:32

FTY765, maybe but more likely is they don't and the Christmas lunch is the real reason. I mean it is not exactly leftfield, colleague wanting Christmas day off for Christmas lunch, no hidden meaning to be extracted, no health appointment as Christmas day! The reality is the colleague doesn't care. Stop dressing it up.

Jobsharenightmare · 05/12/2022 12:32

I'm sorry your manager has left it so late to push the solution back onto you and your colleague; that's so crap of him when it was accepted in April.

Childcare for a disabled non verbal child is so so difficult to arrange. I get it. I hope things work out for you.

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