To ask my colleague to withdraw christmas holiday request.

[Jessiejuju]

OK I feel terrible about this but me and my colleague who I get on with quite well normally have both requested Xmas day off but our manager has said that only one of us can have it off and that we need to sort ot out.I have asked her to withdraw her request as her and her husband they have no kids normally go to her husbands parents on Xmas day but they also go everyweek so it's not like they never see them where as I on the other hand have a 4 year old Autistic son he normaly goes to nursery but his nursery closes 1 week before christmas and doesn't open until next year the shift in question is a 3 hour shift between 7 and 10 in the morning so she and her husband could still be at his parents for lunch time where as because I am a single mama and the nurseries are closed I have no one to watch my son yes I could pay someone but it would be extremely expensive and he would most likely be very distressed with having someone he is unfamiliar with in his home plus it would be difficult for said person as my son is non verbal.
I do feel bad asking her to do this but if she won't then I am going to have no choice but to leave my job.

Ugh not sure why that tagged Jessie, I meant otag @OhChristmasTreeOhChristmasTreeFaLaLa

Absolutely this.

I think this woman sounds like a bitch for refusing to give up 3 hours that won’t really effect her given the circumstances.

Before having kids I would always happily work Christmas so my colleagues could have time at home with their DCs. I’m lucky to be a SAHM now so I don’t have work holiday issues, but if I did Id be pissed if I couldn’t have Christmas off given how many times id worked it for others with families to have it off.

This was me 20 years ago OP. Having to work night shifts xmas eve and Christmas Day when I had 2 DC under 5 because my request for 2 days off was rejected.

I actually agree that you shouldn't automatically have Christmas off because you have children - everyone has reasons to want to be with their families. But too many people kept telling me that I shouldn't expect Christmas off because I had children and it made me realise that Christmas with my children mattered to me.

I worked that Christmas and looked for a new job in the new year. I've never worked a Christmas since.

It doesn't help you this year, but I would have a long hard think about where your personal red lines are and whether you are prepared to put up with this shit every year.

This is really hard but if it was me, I would just take the disciplinary and say they have from now until Christmas Day to sort a replacement, OR, change your shift that day with another later on? (Not sure what kind of care and hours etc, so just a kind of option if it's available.

You cannot leave a four year old, regardless of needs, so you may have no option. I would also point out that you worked last year so it could be they make sure it's alternated in future.

But this should be down to your manager to sort and not you as it will harbour hard feelings with your colleague, and if from management, it's none of your control.

I'd never normally advocate for this, but I'd be telling people its fine now your mums work has swapped her shifts around, phew thank god etc. Keep quiet. Then Christmas morning let manager know the shit timing that the person covering your mums shift has called in sick so as you have no childcare you can sort now you need to take it as dependants leave.

Unless you have already racked up an unreasonable amount of this type of leave there's not much they can do except go through disciplinary process which might result in a warning if they suspect you are indeed lying. They'd be very silly to do anything more than that.

Not great but if I read right you're looking for something else anyway?

If you knew you were going to need Christmas day, why on earyb did you book 2 weeks either side?

Noone is going to show you any good will.

If you had got the whole two weeks and it is essential one of you is in when of earth did you think your colleague was going to celebrate Christmas.

If I were you I'd go to your colleague deeply apologetic and be offering more than one day in return.

Anything else is breathtakingly selfish and thoughtless.

Well it's a bit odd to comment I na thread and then say you're not interested in the issue. I'm asking you not her colleague. Should she abandon her kid or quit, iyo? And OP worked last Xmas, for reference so this isn't an "I procreated, I deserve every nice day off" post.
The colleague doesn't have to work and OP can't. It's now on the manager unless you think either above option is acceptable.

This is care work, surely you can walk into another job in ten minutes flat if you need to. I wouldn’t stress about it anymore.

This. I mean this with respect, OP, but I'm assuming you're not well-paid enough to be able to afford a private, temporary nanny with SN experience on Christmas Day? We don't pay carers enough and there are a huge shortage of them, so really your manager should be bending over backwards to keep you in your job and make it work for you, rather than making unrealistic demands that you can't meet. Paying for agency staff to cover your shift on Christmas day is going to be cheaper for your employer than dragging you through a disciplinary and having to replace you due to a breakdown in the working relationship.

this is a good solution.

i don’t agree that the manager is being poor, in reality it’s best to treat them like grown ups and see if they can sort it between themselves. Rather than they having to step in and tell them.

however if you can switch for a later time could your mum or someone have him then?

But, having said that my colleagues' personal lives barely register with me, i have covered for a lot because i am actually quite the softy. But those that never repay the favour don't ever get a 2nd bite at the cherry and i am very straight at telling them why.

Having thought about it: OP i think the only thing you can do is say, now, "I can't come, it is not possible" and that's it. Don't discuss it with your colleague, just keep telling your manager that you can't do it.

If the colleague is on here: resist pressure from management to change your plans unless there is some quid pro quo in your favour. If you get rostered on against your will, please don't hold it against OP, hold it against your management.

I'm surprised you're allowed to book Christmas and New Year off, your firm seems to run a first come first served system which is a bit harsh. Are you offering her anything in return, if she's working New Years Eve she may be more amenable? When we worked with the Military the general rule was that family men, it was men then, got Christmas and the singles or married with no children got NYE.

OP - for your employer to threaten disciplinary over this is discrimination and illegal.

You have made it clear that you do not have childcare, that you have a child with complex needs, and as a result you cannot work Christmas Day. If anything what you have requested is dependents leave - you have a dependent who requires care.

To refuse leave on this basis is discrimination. By all means allow them to attempt disciplinary - the law is on your side.

I think this woman sounds like a bitch for refusing to give up 3 hours that won’t really effect her given the circumstances.

Again, OP only knows what the colleague tells her. a breezy "Oh I'm spending Christmas Day with my husbands family" could be hiding anything. We can't possibly know her circumstances, and it doesn't matter anyway. Reality is, management need to wort it out now.

You knew back in April Christmas Day hadn’t been given to you, but every other day over the 2-week period had. That’s very nice for you! And that was plenty of time to arrange for your mum to request a shift change etc. But you’ve left it u til 3 weeks before Christmas to sort out. I do feel for you, but if I was your colleague I wouldn’t swop either.

Having said all of that, your manager should have sorted this out back in April when Christmas is way in the future and people get a bit less emotional. Can you ask your manager if you could work later in the day so mum can have your child then?

I agree with all of User's post apart from the last sentence. The OP is in an awful situation and I would offer to cover it myself, but the colleague is probably pretty ground down too by what sounds like a shite place to work. It's the managers problem, they're going to end up losing at least one member of staff if they're not careful.

It is unreasonable of management to expect you and your colleague to sort this out. Keep telling your manager you CANNOT do this and they need to find a solution. Let it go to a disciplinary if need be. Good care staff are hard to find and I doubt they will want to lose you.

Have only read the OPs posts.

we were all told that holidays for Xmas day would be evaluated in November and assigned on a needs basis

They haven't done this though, have they? They have avoided the conflict (which comes with being a manager) and dumped it onto you and your colleague to sort out. It is not fair of them to then say you will get a disciplinary if you can't find a solution.

I am sorry you find yourself in this position.
Yes, the "I've got kids" line isn't fair, and normally I'd say what people choose to do in their annual leave or free time is no one else's business and no ones personal situation trumps anyone else's, but in this case it does seem your colleague could show some compassion (unless there is a long history of them having to work Xmas because of the "I've got kids"), and they've just had enough.

I'd never normally advocate for this, but I'd be telling people its fine now your mums work has swapped her shifts around, phew thank god etc. Keep quiet. Then Christmas morning let manager know the shit timing that the person covering your mums shift has called in sick so as you have no childcare you can sort now you need to take it as dependants leave.

oh and FFS don't pull a stunt like this. Have some self respect. (and if this is your workplace culture, how do you know your colleague won't do this?)

Just get in now with "i can't work that day" and keep repeating this

In the care sector, a needs basis will be the needs of the clients on the day, not staffs lack of childcare or perceived entitlement to Christmas day off, otherwise they would have noone working. Some clients will be taken care of by family members on Christmas day and maybe not as many staff needed, they would have a better idea of any reduced staffing requirements needing the time/November.

It is more than likely the op his misunderstood this.

That’s very nice for you! And that was plenty of time to arrange for your mum to request a shift change etc.

oh missed this. But what about all the people on here who think that people without small children should be covering Christmas? OPs mum also works in care so presumably she is working so the others can have time off?

I think this woman sounds like a bitch for refusing to give up 3 hours that won’t really effect her given the circumstance

Thats a terrible thing to say. You have no idea what her circumstances might be.

An awful lot of childcare providers close down over Christmas - the majority of childminders I used to know would close for 2 weeks over Christmas to spend it with their own families.

Im assuming this is the case with OP - adding in that her child is non verbal with additional needs, have you any idea how difficult it is to settle a child with these needs with a completely new ‘emergency’ back up childcare provider? If you don’t and you haven’t been in this situation yourself, then I really do not think it is your place to criticise OP.

Its not your colleagues fault, its a management issue, I doubt these are the only 2 staff working Christmas Day, if its only a 3hr shift are they really going to be left that short, why cant the manager cover the hours. Neither should feel pressurised or guilty into covering the shift.

@SleepingStandingUp l am interested in an issue but it’s not OP’s. My issue is OP thinks her colleague shouldn’t have any time off over Christmas / New Year as she has no children. Whilst she has nearly 2 weeks off herself.

Like l said OP is getting nearly 2 weeks off, in the grand scheme of things she’s done very well in her line of work. No one even has 1 week off, never mind 2 where l work. As others have mentioned, some places even have blanket bans on annual leave over Christmas and New Year

The colleague is hardly a bitch for wanting one day off during the entire Christmas period.

It's about fairness. Also we don't know what's going on in colleagues life and if she is in a position to swap.

All we know is that OP is unable to work and has a number of options:

• Paying 3x take home pay to get emergency cover if she can . DS May be upset by this

• seeing if a colleague on a later shift can swap

• Resigning and getting another care job

• Phoning in sick on the day