To think MN has a race problem and it’s getting worse

[MovingOutofZone2]

Posters say incredibly offensive, often outright racist things and MN lets them stand as it’s a ‘difference of opinion’ and that’s fine. Other posters complain about this and MN deletes said complaints as they are ‘personal attacks’ and that isn’t fine.

Then we have mods wandering in and going ‘let’s have peace and love’, as though ‘both sides’ need to calm down. No, we need to stop placating racists.

I’m not going to give examples as this will get taken down as a TAAT, but I cannot be the only person to be fed up with all this. MN needs to do something about the racism, race baiting and general cultural ignorance. Unless the site is ONLY meant to cater to white people and, even then, I firmly believe that most posters of any race don’t want to see all that ugliness.

It’s getting to the stage where, as a Black person, I’m steeling myself before I log on. And knowing that half the time I report a comment, I won’t even get a token acknowledgement. This isn’t right. It wasn’t always like this.

I agree OP.

I actually find a lot of the community pretty toxic. On the feminism boards, while discussion is moving in a sensible way, there was definitely a period where many, many post, despite the ignorant cries of their makers, were utterly and unequivocally transphobic. On AIBU you get blood hounds who no matter how banal the subject will come along to rip the OP to shreds. Even the beautiful Christmas boards where I spend the majority of my time have taken a more argumentative edge this year on some of the more viewed posts. Then there's the benefit bashing etc.

I saw that Lady Hussey thread, it's "racism thing" title, the constant defending of the indefensible. If it had been a man saying something to a white woman in a comparably harassing situation, I guarantee Mumsnet would have been united in its outrage.

Can you name one or two if it's at least one.

The problem is, and it’s well researched, that BME children don’t consider teaching because “you can’t be what you can’t see”. If they do they are far less likely to be admitted into teacher training, even with identical qualifications. After that they’re far less likely to get a permanent position post-probation and are more likely to quit the profession (retention rates are awful). In terms of promotional opportunities there are virtually none.

This person is correct and this is one of the reasons I’ve pulled back from the site. The homophobia increase has been noticeable and massive. See the person arguing that no one should protest homophobia in Qatar because the sexism there is far worse because “people can choose to hide that they are gay”

I would have thought it was perfectly obvious.

I’m so sorry that happened to you mrschocolatte. I hope that boy is in the gutter where he belongs.

Your claim that it’s illegitimate to call out racists who ‘aren’t actually racist’ is meaningless because racists almost never accept they are racist.

Those fighting racism have been dealing with tone policing for generations. Being told the right way to tackle racism. Don’t come across as too aggressive. Don’t antagonise. Don’t come across as too ‘different’. It’s all bollox.

So who was it that made a famous speech that went:

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

I want my BME child to be able to go to school and see a teacher who looks like them

This can be difficult for black people in the UK in particular because black people are only 3% of the population, and its a much smaller percentage in most areas outside london. I live in a village of 2500 people with only two black families. None of the teachers at school are black. However, several are of south asian heritage.

I haven't witnessed any racism on here. But one thing I have noticed is so many people are just so rude, entitled and obnoxious. Mumsnet has taught me a lot about myself, and thats mostly that I'm grateful I wasn't brought up like a lot of the brats on here. It's crazy, someone posts asking for advice regarding let's say their job, and suddenly all the cranks pop up an before you know it they've accused the husband of cheating and that she should get divorced. It's a strange place.

Absolutely.

It's like, once as a site feel you have to let blatant transphobia slip into conversation, I guess it becomes harder to see other forms of bigotry and general offensive bullshit dressed up as "robust debate".

TBH, I hardly ever see any racist comments, what threads are they on, maybe I'm not looking at them. I generally hang around the women's rights board with a little bit of chat and AIBU. Is the racism on threads about race, or it come come up in general on threads?

Who are you then rum? Why so coy?

This is so cringely ignorant I started typing a reply and realised I'm not even going to go there.

but I'm not wasting my life on older white people not quite getting it right. They'll get it eventually.

What’s age got to do with anything?
That’s ageist and really offensive to the many ‘older’ white people who have demonstrated against and called out racism their whole lives. You think there are no young racists?

Igotjelly gave thier view and definition of British Culture, why can't you?

You said there is an erasure of Britsh culture. What, in your view, is British Culture?

Although your post poses new questions - what are Christian values?
And is having Christian values an important part of British culture?

The problem is the rise of identity politics. If you primarily identify yourself as black, gay, trans, or female it's easy to jump to the conclusion that anyone who disagrees with you is racist, homophobic, transphobic or sexist.
Mn is good at dealing with posts that cross the line, imo. It's just that some posters really can't deal with posters who disagree with them.

But how have Hindu, Islamic, Jewish values been amalgamated into Britain’s Christian culture?

Britain is still a Christian country. National holidays are reserved for Christmas and Easter, not for Diwali, Eid or Hanukkah.

Again your reading comprehension and deliberate ignoring of exactly what I said is astonishing.!

Where did I say ”Your claim that it’s illegitimate to call out racists". I said deliberately shutting down debate by using rasism as an I win goto hurts the cause is a real issue, when there is not racist intent and then claiming it is not open for debate one this has been used. Is now a common tactic and is hurting the cause and it needs to be called out just the same.

Sorry for me a favour take off your attitude open your own eyes for once there are issues on both sides and it's getting worse. I won't reply to you again because you are obviously blinded by your own hatred.

The 'I don't see colour' view isn't helpful.

We all have subconscious (and conscious) biases whether they are about race, class, gender or what colour someone's socks are (see some of the baby name posts on here for example).

These biases are hard to admit sometimes, but being able to do so will help us all in the long run. Of course be kind to everyone and all of that positive stuff but a bit of self reflection is also valuable.

Safe and open conversations around this are really difficult but I think could really move us forward, however extreme views on both sides make this almost impossible in today's world

Between the racism, the disability bashing and the hatred for single mothers, and MNHQs attitude of “we let threads stand so people can be educated” I’m tired of doing emotional labour when MNHQ should be hitting the delete and ban button.

@LoisLane66

I didn't even realise Meghan markle was of mixed heritage until she started claiming she was being discriminated against, perhaps I'm just not observant, but really it's because I really don't care what quantity of melanin you have in your skin as long as you are a nice person!

I've been discriminated against, it's not nice! Putting unnecessary barriers in place to ensure only your preferred ethnicity of candidate are able to apply is wrong (and the council was a culprit too)

But discrimination in the U.K. is now due to wealth/opportunity mostly not race, and unfortunately people of colour are more likely to be poor and not to have the right family connections producing ongoing structural inequality. More needs to be done to ensure structural inequality doesn't continue to be generational, so every child gets a good education, is properly housed, well supported and has opportunity to pursue their life goals - providing additional support as required.

Organisations eg police need to do better, we all know the problems there, weeding out individuals who are racist - and yes I personally know of someone who fits this unfortunately (not a friend, it's complicated but...)

Racist people exist but most people are like me and really don't understand why colour is even a consideration for people in 21st century Britain, we are all the same, let's show love not hate.

Bringing age into it is just lazy . My black colleague went into see his headmaster yesterday because his son was being racially profiled because he looks different to his classmates . They are 6 . Children have picked up on differences since forever whether that's fat , glasses , ginger now it's colour , hair . I'm not sure how you eradicate this . It's not an age thing at all . You don't just start hating when you hit 50. It's your lifetimes belief and experiences whatever age you are .

Quite right. Amalgamation has never happened and will never do.

Mainly because the English bulldoze their values onto everyone they come into contact with. They have form with it.

To use a single person visiting a country is disingenuous at best.