To think MN has a race problem and it’s getting worse

[MovingOutofZone2]

Posters say incredibly offensive, often outright racist things and MN lets them stand as it’s a ‘difference of opinion’ and that’s fine. Other posters complain about this and MN deletes said complaints as they are ‘personal attacks’ and that isn’t fine.

Then we have mods wandering in and going ‘let’s have peace and love’, as though ‘both sides’ need to calm down. No, we need to stop placating racists.

I’m not going to give examples as this will get taken down as a TAAT, but I cannot be the only person to be fed up with all this. MN needs to do something about the racism, race baiting and general cultural ignorance. Unless the site is ONLY meant to cater to white people and, even then, I firmly believe that most posters of any race don’t want to see all that ugliness.

It’s getting to the stage where, as a Black person, I’m steeling myself before I log on. And knowing that half the time I report a comment, I won’t even get a token acknowledgement. This isn’t right. It wasn’t always like this.

For those asking about British culture and what it is. Let me be clear. I consider “British” culture not to actually be one specific thing. It is an amalgamation of everyone that calls the UK their home, including their customs, beliefs, practices. Maybe once upon a time it was a white Christian culture but that simply is no longer true, I’m fact recent census reports show we are now a minority Christian country.

A child in the UK has as much right to celebrate Ramadan, Eid, Diwali or Hanukkah as they do Christmas, and to see that reflected in their entertainment and education.

The teaching profession isn’t as diverse as society, or even close, and that’s largely because of barriers to recruitment and retention within the profession. Nothing to do with BME people not applying.

You’re not being hyperbolic, you’re being goady because you already know the answer.

Having BAME role models makes a huge difference to aspirations, it helps to feel like you belong.

There has been a lot of research done on this, if you take a few minutes to Google. Not just on black/Asian children but on for example white working class boys too.

People being racist because those who oppose racism made them isn’t a new take.

Blaming victims of racism or their allies for racists, rather than racists themselves, is as old as the hills.

You lack understanding. From your post I want to try and explain. The fact that they have Scotsnet is nice because its a group coming together discussing things in relation to them. I am not offend because it's not harming me, I do not know what discussed nor what the latest topic is because it's NOTHING to do with me. I don't even click on it I'm sick of reading it was trending and then I just clicked.

That simply is a lie because if that were TRUE would simply not just READ? The thread Why comment because this is where the problem ARISES.

When people speak upon what they don't know, they have no real interest because they are just here speaking silly things.

Perception is reality. Those who are feeling are seeing. Those who aren’t feeling, aren’t seeing.

But why isn't there a policy in schools to say "X% of teachers should be BME"? Positive discrimination. Like they did in Northern Ireland to fix the imbalance of Protestant vs Roman Catholic in the police force.

I work in science, and have worked at two different institutes, one of which was based in an extremely diverse city. I have never worked with a black scientist; and have only know of one in my current institute (didn’t know of any in my last). It’s well known in my field that black scientists are extremely underrepresented. I imagine that the reasons for this are very complex and far reaching, but I think focussing on and highlighting famous black scientists in schools (as in, all the time, not just for the tick box “diversity week / month”) would be a good start.

So this is the reason why people are on the defence because we have tried not to separate things. But from this thread alone people cannot get it right still and they are using clumsy phrases which are causing offence.

@TeaKlaxon I agree with most of what you say, but my children were among a tiny handful of white kids in a predominantly black school here in the uk. It was an independent school, and quite unusual. I did consider the impact on them, which isn't the same experience as being a minority heritage in a majority white school. There were moments when they were mildly bullied about their language and how they speak- accused of copying the other children's speech patterns, more than of sounding different. Nothing majorly worrying. I certainly learned a lot. It was my first experience of children mistrusting the police (I was driving for a school trip) and of the politics of dating 'out'.

There is in Scotland. The target is 4% BME education workforce by 2030, in line with society as a whole.

Personally I would have loved to have a non white teacher growing up in 70s/80s Britain. I may have been protected more. I was one of only 4 non white kids in a school of 2000. That was tough. Constant racist abuse and violence. One boy told me he would rape me and make my family watch before he slit their throats. I was 12. My teachers told me sticks and stones and all that….

I never commented on actual resists if you read and comprehend what I said.

I said if you try to shut down debate with people whom disagree with you constantly with claiming rasism, even if they are not you alienate the cause because you are abusing the issue for your own gain. So again attempting to shut me down saying it is as old as the hills is yet again trying to shut down open debate.

You are the issue!

I agree with you @MovingOutofZone2 some posts are downright racist and they are allowed to stand. It would be interesting to know how how diverse @MNHQ is.

I consider “British” culture not to actually be one specific thing. It is an amalgamation of everyone that calls the UK their home, including their customs, beliefs, practices.

A child in the UK has as much right to celebrate Ramadan, Eid, Diwali or Hanukkah as they do Christmas, and to see that reflected in their entertainment and education.

If I go to an Arab country can I attempt to 'amalgamate' my Christian values to theirs so that it's all indistinct? I bet not, This amalgamation doesn't exist. Anyone can celebrate whatever they want, but it's at best disingenuous to claim that it's all part of British culture. It isn't

It shouldn’t be a race to the bottom. We can and should do better.

White people who ‘see the person not the colour’ are really saying that they refuse to acknowledge the differences in how some people are treated because of their race and they refuse to do anything about it.

This!

’We should be colourblind’ or ‘why being race into it’ are things white people can easily say because they’ve never walked in the shoes of someone who is black. And never will!

Comments like this are part of the problem. They make the white person saying it look like they are the ‘good one’ seeking equality etc etc and the black person who has mentioned race is the problem. Again it’s gaslighting, whether intentional or not.

This is exactly why there should be a Blackmumsnetter section. (But even there white posters come along and ‘whitesplain’ things which again is not helpful!)

I agree with you 100%.

4% seems low! What does that look like in practice? I'm not in education so I'm not sure how many teachers are employed in an average school.

In asking white people to educate themselves and do better, there is the problem of apathy. In a world where people are absorbed by their own worries, which are continually heaped on, most will not have the headspace or energy to address the legacy of colonialism and slavery. We focus on what directly affects us. I’ve supported a black colleague who was subjected to bullying based on race, to the point that my actions had the bully sacked. I will always tackle racism when it happens directly in my line of vision. But I don’t have the capacity to be motivated to go further than that, and I apologise for that, but it’s the reality.

Nope. Racists are the issue.

And by the way racists almost never think they are racist.

It equates I think to about 200 teachers of colour a year being recruited. It’s never going to happen unfortunately. I think there are 1 or 2 non-white head teachers in the entire of Scotland.

Hear fucking hear.

Explain what you mean by transphobic? Most posts I see are just asking for dignity for biological women, and that is what I want. I agree with JKR on the subject, I don't wish harm to any trans person but neither do I want to have the progress in women's rights that I have seen in my lifetime to be eroded. Why is that transphobic?

Oh so it's not that each school must have a certain number - it's across the whole sector. That's shit. There needs to be more incentives to get people into teacher training, if that's the issue. And other areas.

😂Okay what ever, your either to blind or stubborn to listen to my point. Carry on making it harder for the rest of us.

Oh and by the way, I hope your last comment was directed at me because you don't have a clue who or what I am. Your little I win digs are wasted on me.