To think MN has a race problem and it’s getting worse

[MovingOutofZone2]

Posters say incredibly offensive, often outright racist things and MN lets them stand as it’s a ‘difference of opinion’ and that’s fine. Other posters complain about this and MN deletes said complaints as they are ‘personal attacks’ and that isn’t fine.

Then we have mods wandering in and going ‘let’s have peace and love’, as though ‘both sides’ need to calm down. No, we need to stop placating racists.

I’m not going to give examples as this will get taken down as a TAAT, but I cannot be the only person to be fed up with all this. MN needs to do something about the racism, race baiting and general cultural ignorance. Unless the site is ONLY meant to cater to white people and, even then, I firmly believe that most posters of any race don’t want to see all that ugliness.

It’s getting to the stage where, as a Black person, I’m steeling myself before I log on. And knowing that half the time I report a comment, I won’t even get a token acknowledgement. This isn’t right. It wasn’t always like this.

Obviously some people are subtle racists. If someone just happens to not like say Meghan, Venus, Serena, Will I Am & Lenny Henry then there is obviously a common link. But many people not liking just one of those will just not like them for reasons other than race.

It stands to reason that on MM threads some people disliking her will be racist, but unless they are overt about it, it won't be possible to tell who. So a percentage of posts will stand even though the posters had racist reasons.

I don't know what can be done about that.

I don't see this, but i am white so im aware that will limit my perspective.

Are there particularly themed threads where it comes up a lot?

For a lot of posters on mnet we live in communities with few/no black people (only 3% of the population are black & many live in london).so our experience of diverse populations tend to be based on people of indian subcontinent heritage who are much more common in the UK. Its a very different cultural perspective however.

Outwardly racist or hate speech is easy to delete though.

What’s being let stand is the insidious “whataboutery”, “some people just go looking for offence”, “playing the race card”, dog whistles and denial that racism exists. There’s already a steaming heap of such examples on this thread.

They come out in droves on any MM thread and it is disingenuous to say otherwise.

Separately- No I will not be copying and pasting examples. They are there if you don't have the inclination to do your own research or understand then my spoon feeding you is not going to help you.

You see it in the language used: manufactured hysteria, over-reacting, antics. It diminishes and dismisses.

I cannot agree op. Offensive posts are taken down swiftly by HQ.

not revenge but recognition of the reality of the foundations of ourSociety and what it means for people today

Sorry, but the way in which this is being carried out with the 'decolonisation' and erasure of British culture agenda doesn't smack of innocent recognition, it smacks of revenge. No wonder people don't accept it and push back

How can you search for threads you don’t know exist?

Meghan is a bully and a red herring in this argument, as no one can say anything bad about her, as it’s racist.
She treated people at the palace appallingly, is very self centred and to be honest not in touch with the real world anymore (have you listened to her podcast?).
I think if we want to have a genuine discussion about race, we remove her, as people have such polarising views on her personality.

I also think we often forget Asian people in all this, I hear so much of sticking up for black people, but the worst racism I’ve seen in real life was to a chap of south East Asian heritage.
It feels like the BBC especially is bending over backwards to include black people, rightly so, but what about British Asian people? Who make up 7% of the population?

I would be interested to see an example of one.

blaming refugees for the strep A outbreak
minimising the very real harm caused by micro-aggressions such as repeatedly asking where someone is really from

These two i was horrified by in the media. Lady hussey was so blatantly racist.

I used to get slightly confused by a sort of reverse of that situation however, a uni friend always told everyone she was from Nigeria.... she'd was born & raised in the uk and had never set foot in nigeria. I found that confusing as a 19 year old as there's a difference between actually being born/living somewhere, and it being your heritage.

Now i just assume people will define whatever feels right to them.

If you want an example, read through this thread.

@Pleasecreateausername13 ’You people’? Who are you talking about here?

Can’t say as I’ve come across racism on Mumsnet to any notable degree.

What is British Culture? How do you define what is "British"?

This IS people’s lives. It’s insidious and impacts every single element of life from the moment you’re born and the healthcare your mother receives, through education where BME won’t see themselves reflected in their teachers or curriculum, to university where they are likely to do less well than their white counterparts, to the workplace where there are numerous barriers to recruitment and promotion. It’s everywhere.

it’s not being permanently offended, it’s just deeply frustrating.

The frustrating thing about the Meghan Markle “it’s not racist to say you don’t like her blah blah threads” is that people just don’t see how they’re perception is completely skewed by the tabloid press/media (especially on a site where people fall over themselves to deny reading the daily mail!) who have a racist agenda.

I’m guessing that nobody on these threads has ever met her in real life. The only source they have on what she’s like (or certainly the loudest source that then spills over into other areas of the internet) is the right wing tabloid press. Do you honestly, honestly think they’re going to be an unbiased source knowing how easily click bait headlines about race go down with their readership? The reason “you don’t like her” is because you’ve been fed reasons not to like her. Look at the contrasting headlines between Meghan and Kate which predate her leaving the royal family (www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/ellievhall/meghan-markle-kate-middleton-double-standards-royal). If anyone peddling that line can say 100% that they don’t like her because they know her and she’s a queue jumper/kicks puppies/made fun of their kid’s haircut etc then fine. Who knows, she could well be a bit of a nightmare. The problem is that none of us really know do we and I’m certainly not taking the daily bloody mail as my way of judging somebody’s character.

On your actual point (because Meghan Markle always gets dragged into general discussions about race, usually by posters insisting that the way she’s been treated is nothing to do with her race…); I completely agree OP! I’ve been absolutely horrified by some of the comments on the threads re the events at the palace. Where posters have patiently explained why what happened was upsetting, shared their own experiences etc only to be told that that they’re overreacting or be shut down with tiresome ‘when I was a white woman living in Japan blah blah’. It’s embarrassing the lack of critical thinking or understanding of global politics and history on here. Or even just the willingness to listen, engage and acknowledge that somebody is upset and that maybe, just maybe you as a middle class white woman (generalisation if site demographics I’ll admit) aren’t the best person to decide if something is racist or not.

Hmmmm ok very recent. .....Look for the Ngozi Fulani threads

Now i just assume people will define whatever feels right to them

This is happening a lot too lately. It irritates people when someone pretends to be something they are not because it will be more advantageous. Why would you say you are from XX when you were actually born in the UK, why would you change your name, etc

This!

Britain is an increasingly diverse place with an array of wonderful cultures in it. This should be celebrated and represented in our education system. Decolonisation is about ensuring that we are representative of the UK NOW and recognise and accept that much of our society is deeply institutionally racist because of our history.

I want my BME child to be able to go to school and see a teacher who looks like them, read a book written by someone like them, learn about scientists/scholars/historical figures that look like them.

Polish v white? What do you mean?

If anyone reading this thread is white, thinking that they don't see much racism and doesn't really understand what a lot of these posters mean, could I recommend reading Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race. It'll take you by the hand and lead you through British Society as you've never seen it before.