To think MN has a race problem and it’s getting worse

[MovingOutofZone2]

Posters say incredibly offensive, often outright racist things and MN lets them stand as it’s a ‘difference of opinion’ and that’s fine. Other posters complain about this and MN deletes said complaints as they are ‘personal attacks’ and that isn’t fine.

Then we have mods wandering in and going ‘let’s have peace and love’, as though ‘both sides’ need to calm down. No, we need to stop placating racists.

I’m not going to give examples as this will get taken down as a TAAT, but I cannot be the only person to be fed up with all this. MN needs to do something about the racism, race baiting and general cultural ignorance. Unless the site is ONLY meant to cater to white people and, even then, I firmly believe that most posters of any race don’t want to see all that ugliness.

It’s getting to the stage where, as a Black person, I’m steeling myself before I log on. And knowing that half the time I report a comment, I won’t even get a token acknowledgement. This isn’t right. It wasn’t always like this.

Ironically, Ngozi uses the same expression, "your people" as Lady Hussey;

"Our house was safe, we could be our African authentic selves."

"Where the radio stations wouldn’t play our music, the sound systems, were places where we could go and hear music deafening at two o’clock in the morning with the light off. But you were with your people and there was none of these stresses and strains that the Western world had for us." ...

My parents have been bowing down to the likes of you for fifty years, I don’t wanna do it. And that’s a truth that we need to talk about. As I said, because I’m so outspoken, and because I am my father’s child – he’s very powerful – I know my power, and I embrace my power. And so even if I’m sitting quietly, my energy is evident. And it will sometimes draw people to me, and it will sometimes make people uncomfortable...

museum-collection.hackney.gov.uk/object-2018-54

What’s ironic about that?

@starfro

You think she was in "Full national dress"? Really?! Wrist watch and all? Goodness.

This could be a factor -
After 3 months admin still didn't know she was a teacher? I wonder if they would do that to white teachers or they would assume they were teachers or kitchen staff?
Possibly with her experience and the number of people she meets professionally by now NF is worn down constantly with this kind of interaction. I'm sure there was a time when she did explain her history over and over again and respond to questions she found offensive and racist but she has had enough and refuses to keep going down that line.

Those who don't see it as an issue and can't understand why she just didn't smile and placate LH - maybe you have not yet had enough.

dieselKiller
What’s ironic about that?

Susan Hussey has been castigated for using the expression "your people".

Those who don't see it as an issue and can't understand why she just didn't smile and placate LH - maybe you have not yet had enough.

Sorry I meant that sentence for those who are black British.

@PreparationPreparationPrep she said "an admin who didn't know me or hadn't seen me" which seems implausible and unlikely to me but would explain why they didn't know what job she did.

@Clavinova

Was the admin staff member being racist asking someone they didn't know/ recognise, "Can I help you?" Why didn't Ngozi just reply, "I'm a teacher" or flash her name badge, or even introduce herself and strike up a friendly conversation? Why draw out the exchange with somewhat secretive, cryptic replies?

Or was there something going on very familiar to Ngozi and poc generally, but apparently unfamiliar to you - that she couldn’t possibly be a teacher/doctor/banker/lawyer because she’s not white. You must be a parent, patient, cleaner, criminal…

After she’s been in the job a few months they still didn’t recognise her, indeed it didn’t occur them that she that she may be a staff member at all.

Only just the other day I was reading of a doctor who was denied entrance to a medical conference because it was “only for doctors”. And a lawyer who turned up at court to represent his clients and was shown to the defendant’s waiting room.

Erm context is key?

Yup. And power is key – Lady SH was on home turf; NF wasn’t.

Still not seeing your point. What did Susan Hussey mean by “your people” and what does “your people” mean in the passage you quoted?

An obvious point of difference is that “your people” probably means “our people” in the quote above, so maybe they’re not using the same expression at all?

Even so, suppose they are using the same expression in some sense, why is it ironic that different people use the same expression in different contexts and get different responses?

PreparationPreparationPrep
After 3 months admin still didn't know she was a teacher?

She says, "who didn’t know me or hadn’t seen me"

*I wonder if they would do that to white teachers?

Would you let someone you hadn't seen before walk into a school and wander around just because they are white? You wouldn't say; "Can I help you?"

or they would assume they were teachers or kitchen staff?

They didn't assume she was kitchen staff - they asked if she was a parent before that. What clues did Ngozi give that she was a teacher other than being somewhat rude to the admin staff?

Then there’s been the posts blaming Ngozi Fulani for: being evasive, sly, hostile, disingenuous, difficult (all words used by posters, not me); and saying she should have, from the off, answered with “I’m from Britain but my parents were from the Caribbean”, without acknowledging that white people never introduce themselves with “I’m from Nottingham but my mum’s from Kettering”.

Lies like this just muddy the water. Of course white people get the 'where are you really from?' question. I'm white and I do, a lot. I was told on another thread that it isn't the same and grand if you don't think it is the same but maybe instead of making blanket statements like 'white people' you should say white people with british heritage living in Britain or what whatever. Nothing is black and white if you excuse the pun. I can't speak to the black experience but the 'white experience' isn't universal. Some of us do frequently introduce ourselves as 'I'm from Nottingham but my parents are from x' because we know exactly what people are asking when they ask that question.

Snap.

My siblings were largely white and I wasn't.

I can tell you which group MM fit into and how she was treated.

MM is certainly not my spokesperson for race issues. Double kick in the teeth for me.

And what clues did she give to say she was kitchen staff?

Exactly this

Erm context is key?

I guess there's context in the interview:

"my father, he was a powerhouse, and I think I get my love of music and dance, and being able to challenge the world – that came from him. Most definitely. We say Africa in everything we do..."

"My father, as I said, gave me that record, but he let me understand we are Africans...

"Where it becomes a problem is where I wear my authentic African clothes – this is not a costume, this is what I wear..."

"Sistah Space is unique in that we understand the African-heritage women and girls. We can cater for them in so many ways. We understand what it is like to be an African in Britain or an African in the diaspora."

And what clues did she give to say she was kitchen staff?

She's a woman?

@minou123
People of colour have been explaining for years, if not decades, what is and is not acceptable. They have been explaining how they experience racism and how it affects them

People of colour are not a single unit. We all have different individual experiences of racism.

I've seen a lot of cases of what I'd consider to be wolf crying, but somehow that never seems to be taken on board. What is or is not acceptable is already bound in law in this Country. Everything else is subjective and not always correct.

Try again.

How can you tell? Do you know her?

I never used to like being asked that but I don't mind it now. I can see why some people wouldn't like it. When I felt marginalised I felt very attacked by that question. These days I can see people are asking out of genuine interest.

Mirabai
Try again

Our music back then – our Reggae music, our African music – told our story, both in the Caribbean and in Africa, but most importantly of the African life here in Britain.

I don't need to know her to know she wouldn't have experienced the type of racism I did.

Which is why she's not my spokesperson for race issues.

Unless you've been through a direct experience of having a sibling with a lighter skin tone similar age and gender which most people haven't it's not something you'd understand.

Also it's a pretty ridiculous question. I don't need to know MM to know that she doesn't know what its like to stick your penis into someone.

I don't need know her to know she doesn't know what it's like to get shouted at in the streets for being a different colour.

How anyone can't see that is beyond me.