To think MN has a race problem and it’s getting worse

[MovingOutofZone2]

Posters say incredibly offensive, often outright racist things and MN lets them stand as it’s a ‘difference of opinion’ and that’s fine. Other posters complain about this and MN deletes said complaints as they are ‘personal attacks’ and that isn’t fine.

Then we have mods wandering in and going ‘let’s have peace and love’, as though ‘both sides’ need to calm down. No, we need to stop placating racists.

I’m not going to give examples as this will get taken down as a TAAT, but I cannot be the only person to be fed up with all this. MN needs to do something about the racism, race baiting and general cultural ignorance. Unless the site is ONLY meant to cater to white people and, even then, I firmly believe that most posters of any race don’t want to see all that ugliness.

It’s getting to the stage where, as a Black person, I’m steeling myself before I log on. And knowing that half the time I report a comment, I won’t even get a token acknowledgement. This isn’t right. It wasn’t always like this.

So you've studiously ignored every other aspect of my post? Seriously, start with Cromwell, you'll see your examples are false equivalencies.

There is a difference between "supporting her behaviour", and trying to find out why she said it.

I certainly wouldn't have said it, but I'm younger and know better. I have good friends who are second generation, and know all about their roots, but wouldn't ask on first meeting as you don't want to appear like you're assuming they are foreign, even if that isn't the intention.

Just because I haven't responded to it explicitly doesn't mean I have ignored it.

I'd be much more likely to follow your advice however if I'm not barked at in imperatives like "seriously, start with Cromwell". So rude.

Apparently you’re not interested in discussing what that poster actually said. What do expect me to do if you won’t engage with the text at issue, but simply use it to goad me.

“Debate” on this level (I’d hardly call it debate more like stroppy contradiction) is is not massively interesting.

I've visited rural African communities as part of a previous job. Cardigans were not apparent as part of 'full national dress'.

People are supporting her behaviour on this very thread. There are multiple threads on MN right now, with people arguing her case. If you’ve missed all of this, then you’re not paying attention.

From what I can see most people are not defending it so much as just not mindlessly accepting what they're being ordered to be the All White People Are Racist cohort.

It's odd to me that these discussions always go back to the transatlantic slave trade and seem to ignore the fact that there are now almost 4x the number of slaves in the world than were enslaved over the entire 400 years of the transatlantic slave trade.

Her age is irrelevant. She's paid by the state and has form for this type of behaviour. She's younger than my mother, who might ask the question innocently but wouldn't be arrogant enough to ignore the response - and she's not paid by the taxpayer.

'So rude'? You'll be saying I have a chip on my shoulder next. Please substitute the word 'seriously' for 'may I kindly appeal to your reason and intellect?'

'Debate” on this level (I’d hardly call it debate more like stroppy contradiction) is is not massively interesting.'

Oh right. So don't bother responding then. So far you have given me no insight into the other argument other than wafting away my post with the usual vague' if you don't know that... ' and' I don't need to explain' type responses. And called my ignorant.

Will you explain how I can be interested in someone's culture without asking them about it? It's a pretty simple question I would say.

Is 'not all white people' the new 'not all men'?

I wouldn't say so but luckily I didn't say that though.

@Hobbi LH role was voluntary, she wasn't paid.

Ah, the 'exact word's' defence.

I know. The disgusting hypocrisy of this is a big part of why I can't take any of this ideology seriously. So many contradictions that cannot be explored because the very act of doing so is...you guessed it...RACIST. It's all so convenient.

Can anyone give definitive answer on what she was wearing as I've read contradictory accounts and it would seem to be important in the context?

Well I didn't say it though 🤷🏼‍♀️

Don't worry, I am in no doubt whatsoever that this makes me...RACIST!

Here is a picture from the event:

It's not salaried, but she is described as 'employed' by the palace. I think Tony Benn might have had something to ask about the origins of her power and influence. She certainly isn't a volunteer in any meaningful sense of the word and definitely doesn't do shifts at The Liberty Bounds Wetherspoon's at Tower Bridge.

To paraphrase Tolkien, I wouldn't take names to yourself, they may stick.

@Whatthe20567 There's a multitude of threads from the last few weeks you could read for starters, where ethnic minority MN'ers (specifically Black, Jewish and Asian) have explained it over and over. So there's your debate already there for you, all good to go! Read the threads.

The number of times 'playing the race card' has been spewed all over this thread makes it hard for victims of racism to get others to listen on here. The goading, the minimising and downplaying of experience, the suggestions of lying, and the tiresome demands for EXPLICIT proof or evidence of racism. These all might not be obvious racist aggressions as you understand it, but it's insidious and pervasive, and the prejudice is obvious (and probably will beto many lurkers on this thread). A lot of it is harder to spot because it's manipulative and gaslighty. But it's all there, in many of these threads. Why should ethnic-minority MNers keep having to entertain this so-called debate when they are repeatedly told they're imagining or exaggerating it and the racism doesn't exist because you can't actually see it yourself! Of course there's the argument that why would you notice these instances if you're white and don't know how to spot, but as above, the threads are there and it's been explained repeatedly.

Now this apparent "debate" has turned into non-ethnic minority MN'ers acting like they're the injured party - the 'too scared to say anything these days' brigade. A PP above claimed "People are terrified of speaking to one another for fear of causing offence where none was meant". I would suggest those on the other end of racial prejudice and constant belittling on here are the ones terrified of speaking up. They're fucking tired of it. And then there's the churlish (and stroppy as someone called it) responses, e.g. "Anyway, I still would like to see a racist post. It should be easy enough, given how racist we apparently are on here" or "they're being ordered to be the All White People Are Racist cohort.

I am seeing that when that any well meaning people asking for examples are shot down with things like

• I shouldn't have to provide evidence
• it's really obvious and you must be Stupid or wilfully ignorant if you can't see it
• etc

And this then results in toxic and circular debate rather than positive and constructive dialogue.

I've even seen on Twitter people say that asking for evidence is itself racist, as evidence is a construct of white privilege which to me seems pretty racist.

To paraphrase Tolkien, I wouldn't take names to yourself, they may stick.

Oh no, this one has been assigned to me by those with nefarious intent. It's stuck hard in their eyes.

If it is so hard to spot and not obvious, surely it would be helpful for people to give examples to someone who genuinely wants to understand. It seems contradictory to me to say it's so obvious that we shouldn't have to provide evidence but also the evidence is really hard to spot and subtle.