To be utterly fed up of what UK workplace culture has become?

[ExpectationManagementCharm]

I'm a middle manager in a large UK firm. I am not a new manager; and I'm not young, late 30s. I am generally perceived to be at the "laid back"/supportive end of the management spectrum (but I'll fight tooth and nail for one of my team if I think they're being asked unreasonable stuff/being treated unfairly).
However, I'm tearing my hair out at being at the "crunch point" of upper level expectations to get on and deliver stuff vs. how my more junior employees expect to work these days. I'm so exhausted and getting no support from anyone. I can no longer see if it's just my workplace or the norm.

Example1: Junior staff expecting to not dial into team meetings beacuse of trivial reasons - some of which are downright unprofessional (i have my weekly run with a PT booked then- but this is within normal work office hours e.g. 2pm on a Thursday). While my HR policy states that I need to be "flexible" for personal reasons, which means I then need to follow up separately with that person each time. Result - less work for employee, HR is happy, senior management say no problem, more work for me.

Example 2: Junior staff (especially our newly graduated colleagues) expecting to be able to get out of (reasonable) work deadlines by using the word "anxiety" all the time. "I couldn't deliver a client item/I was feeling anxious" (meaning I had to pull an all nighter to get it finished to meet our deadline). I try and escalate to HR - but I need to be "understanding". Result - employee's piss poor performance slides, HR are happy, senior management say no problem (because client delivery didn't suffer), I get to work an all nighter to cover the gap.

These are multiple examples, across lots of team members over the last ~ 5 years, but it's definitely got worse over the last year or so. The concept of "my word is my oath"/reliablility seems to have completely gone out of the window.

Yet my employer's HR team just turn it back on me as a team manager to manage, leading to more work, which means I just have another thing to do.

I'm currently pursuing performance improvement plans with 2 of my team at the moment, whose hiring i was not involved in, and i'm going mad trying to fit in what HR expect (to follow the process) alongside juggling my own actual workload. I'm not just a people manager, yet HR seem to think i have free time to spend doing delicate, intensive people management activity, despite my already crushing workload.

Does anyone else recongnise this or is it time to look for a new employer?

FWIW, i love my team (in general) but the recent piss taking has really taken its toll - I feel like no one at work has my back at all.

@Needarest22

That’s good to hear.

They were the only ones to whine about it where I worked!

In some cases that may be true but I think that in the OPs case, and that of many other posters here, the workload should be fine for the number of staff doing it - provided that these staff actually carry out the tasks and in a reasonable amount of time. I don't expect 100% productivity from staff at all times, but I do expect all the staff to be able to do roughly the same amount, allowing for things like illness, time in the job etc. E.g. if the majority of staff can and have done y amount of work in a week within the allocated time, then you should be able to allocate 10 times y amount of work to 10 staff, give or take a bit.

But if half the staff at the same level are only managing to do 20% of the work between them, the others (and often the manager) are having to pick up the slack.

OP, it sounds like you are doing everything right and HR are being unhelpful. There are a lot of posters here who seem to be offering criticism of you or suggesting that YOU should do more - even though you have clearly expressed you’re doing everything you can / everything you have time to do.

A few suggestions:
Can you speak to your manager and insist that hours need to be coded to your time sheet for people management? Tell them which projects you won’t be able to pick up due to the extra time your team demand.

Even if they don’t give you a code, start documenting exactly how long you are spending on people management. Who does your burn rates and client billing? Could they be an ally?

Even if HR are unhelpful, document everything. Do not pick up ANYTHING for the team members in question without documenting it. Even if you know full well they won’t do it, ask them in writing to do it so you can document that you have asked. I have had to take this approach with a totally incompetent colleague for the past year. His manager doesn’t want to hear anything about how incompetent he is and is shielding the team member from scrutiny. Despite falling on deaf ears, I am continuing to document and regularly documenting to the manager just how poorly the team member is performing. I believe either the manager will start to listen - or eventually shit will hit the fan with very senior management (CEO!) and this bad manager will be exposed as failing to manage his team. Perhaps you could even ask for a standing meeting with HR for guidance, i.e. force them to start wasting some of their time on this so they can see how much of yours is being wasted.

This is an interesting thread.
I am worried about the current 17/18 year olds. Covid meant they had significant amounts of time at home, got into bad habits (sleeping in late, lack of routine) and didn’t sit any GCSE exams so got teacher grades instead.

A lot of them found sitting their A level exams this year quite difficult as they just lacked experience. Normal levels of stress are seen as anxiety. There were students having panic attacks or even walking out of exams. Two years of study and nothing to show for it, because you’ve not learnt how to cope with being put under pressure.

Our current Year 13s are also finding it difficult. Some have simply walked out of mock exams, or refused to sit them at all, because of anxiety. We try to explain that the mock exams are for their benefit, to give them practice, and so the teacher can help them with exam techniques. They don’t want to hear it and the parents don’t back us up. They want predicted grades based on class work due to anxiety, but thats not going to help them in May and June when they sit the real thing.
I’ll probably get blasted for this but I feel some parents are enablers, making excuses for their child rather than encouraging them to to do things they don’t want to do.

College and University is naturally a transition time going from being a child to an adult - we don’t automatically gain the skills needed in work. But if teachers are not allowed to enforce boundaries and constantly have to make allowances, then the students are simply being sheltered and aren’t learning what normal life is like. Businesses are then having to pick this up when graduates don’t have the skills they need to cope with a job.

Allergictoironing, I know what a work contract is, but thank you for typing that all out.

I don't think a 37.5 hour a week reasonably paid office job is work themselves to death in a society and system where they aren't even rewarded for it.

Yes it is. People work too much and always have so companies can try to squeeze every last drop out of them.

And there is a difference between having a genuine mental health problem, and only wanting to work when everything is perfect in their lives but still get paid when they aren't working.

Who exactly are you to say what mental health issues are genuine and which are not? I have some news for you - these is no difference between "normal routine anxiety everyone gets" and the "anxiety" which is a diagnosed disorder - the main criteria is that it is interfering with daily life, which, if it's at the point where it's interfering with their job - it is!

I can just see your reaction if you were at a supermarket and 4-5 times the staff doing your checkout stopped to look at their phone, maybe comment on someone's social media post, take a social call, or even watch a video clip they have been sent.

I have never had this happen once in my life and I've been to very many supermarket checkouts. Why are you making up ludicrous scenarios?

If you know you always have a team meeting on a Wednesday afternoon, don't arrange personal appointments for that time if it can be avoided.

Er, no, because the employer agreed to not require you in work mandatorily if you have things like pre-existing personal appointments. Otherwise how is it flexible?

There should be more allowances made. I feel sorry for you if you don't think so. Perhaps people are waking up to how employers have been wringing everything out of their workers with no remorse and indeed no empathy, and instead of being a bootlicker you could instead campaign to secure better working lives for you and your colleagues.

I can just see your reaction if you were at a supermarket and 4-5 times the staff doing your checkout stopped to look at their phone, maybe comment on someone's social media post, take a social call, or even watch a video clip they have been sent.

have never had this happen once in my life and I've been to very many supermarket checkouts. Why are you making up ludicrous scenarios?

@moksorineouimoksori You’ve completely missed the point of the post - she was saying that if you were at the supermarket and this happened you would be pretty annoyed. But it doesn’t happen, because the employee would be fired for not doing their job properly. Why should office work be any different?

Because office work doesn't require doing thing in specific 5-minute moments like being a supermarket cashier. Just like i wouldn't care at all if a supermarket cashier was checking their phone as i browse about the shop, but when i come to the checkout they would need to put down their phone to complete the transaction. Irrelevant anyway because i've had many gen z cashiers and none of them were actively checking their phone as i bought my items

@moksorineouimoksori some office work asks for exactly that though. I record my time (accountant) in 6 minute blocks. Some of my work is equivalent to serving on a checkout e.g. conversations with clients, producing deliverables - i.e., the bit the customer sees. When I’m not doing that, so when my customer is browsing around the shop in your scenario, I am doing a whole host of other things - winning new work, client onboarding, learning and development, managing people. You don’t just piss about on your phone when you’re not being watched by someone.

I can see there's absolutely no point in talking to you, as far as you are concerned every single employer in the world is a Scrooge trying to squeeze every possible ounce of work out of every employee (hint - they aren't all like that).

And being anxious enough that you aren't able to do your job means the employer should just keep on paying you to do the few little bits you feel like doing (hint - why the hell should they?) and some other poor sod has to pick them up on top of their own work (hint - fecking selfish & unfair).

And that failing to get your (paid for) work done simply because the majority of your "working" time is spent on personal social things should be everybody's right

And being flexible works both ways. I never suggested that pre-existing appointments needed to be cancelled, only to not book personal appointments when you have pre-existing work meetings booked.

But you keep only reading the bits that you think are attacking these poor hardworking young people who should be allowed to pick & choose which parts of their job they actually do, even completely missing words that completely change the meaning of what I said.

I don't think that all Gen Z people are like that, in the same way that I don't think any particular age group doesn't have their fair share of chancers. It's just that recent school leavers or graduates seem to have a much higher proportion of entitlement than others in general.

Wow
The post went right over your head.
You do know, mental health can be used to suggest you are neither safe or capable to carry out workplace duties.
Once that card is played, people can be managed out.
Who in earth thinks private phone or internet usage is acceptable during work time. It's stealing time, resources and ultimately money.
Is someone checks their phone 10 mins an HR that can be construed as stealing 2 HR pay per day.
Honestly, it's a disciplinary then managed out.

I could have written your post myself 6 months ago. I had 4 people going through the performance measures. I left for a job with no management responsibility as the money just wasn't worth the stress.

Not unreasonable at all, I did an appraisal recently where the anxiety and depression card was played, and I did at the time offer support , suggesting he contacted his gp for advice, he wriggled out of being accountable for his diabolical performance, and me feeling walked all over but there's no choice, employment law these days is absurd, that's where the problem lies, it effectively stops employers from having good standards and we have to carry freeloaders , sorry for the rant

You’re shrieking about how lazy your reports are but you’re in turn expecting HR to do your job for you. Maybe management isn’t for you.

Agree with the observation about some parents not helping matters.

Exactly the same experience where I work too.

Almost all “anxiety” claims are pure bullshit. What’s actually ridiculous is having to take such nonsense seriously. It’s like when a kid says “the dog ate my homework” being told you should ask about the dog’s health.

Does appear that a lot of them seem to be pushing the boundaries, which is down to a mix of cheeky ones trying their luck and poor comms from the workplace about what “personal circumstances” are allowed to be accommodated (eg. Sick kid, yes; personal trainer, no!– unless it’s logged and hours are made up, and missing a meeting for a jog isn’t ok).

But I do think blanket-blaming all Gen Z for being work-shy and anxious is harsh. I kind of see it as them being the first generation not to just roll over and take whatever is thrown at them.

Maybe they’ve watched previous generations drive themselves into the ground working, ignoring the effects of stress and anxiety and just ploughing on to their mental detriment? I broadly think it’s a good thing that people feel more comfortable admitting when they’re struggling, as long as they’re also up for actively getting help with it. We have mental health first aiders at work whose presence has made a huge difference. And I don’t think it’s anyone’s place to dismiss others’ claims of anxiety as lies or exaggeration.

I have a lot of sympathy with this. As a team manager you are required to be kind and supportive to individual’s issues/excuses but no chance your manager will accept those as reasons clients deliveries aren’t made. Are you paid substantially more than your team? Im not paid enough of a differential to justify the extra responsibility and ‘doer of last resort’ so I’m leaving :-)

you need to have meetings with each member of staff individually, explaining the daily huddle. This is their opportunity to raise issues with their deadlines. if they do not attend these meetings regularly, and explain issues affecting their ability to complete their deadlines,then they need to accept that they are responsible for the failure to complete the work within the deadline.

Hey, I work in HR - the way I would help you if you approached me is helping you to structure a conversation with these individuals to let them know that you do support them and are understanding if their issues but that it’s not acceptable to be worming their way out of deadlines and expecting others to pick up their work for them, and that it won’t be tolerated going forwards. FWIW I agree with you that there does seem to be a lot more of this sort of thing coming from the younger generation, I was having a similar moan just last week. It’s a bit of a minefield!! Good luck xx

I do think the younger generation struggle with anxiety a lot. I think it's a cross between feeling a natural amount nervousness being junior and confusing that with real anxiety - and also growing up with parents babying them quite a bit.

The only thing to do is be a bit sterner. The anxiety they feel not doing the work for you / getting sacked should outweigh the anxiety they feel doing it. That, or you tell them hr you have anxiety that your staff aren't doing their jobs and that they won't assist. Maybe then they'll take it seriously.

And all the ppl scoffing and saying OP isn't up to management. HR should absolutely be helping her with a progression plan if requested. They are there for oversight and not just there to shrug their shoulders.

“I have anxiety” fucks me right off.

You either have a clinically diagnosed anxiety disorder or you don’t. If you don’t, then fuck off with that.

A huge part of my CPTSD is raging anxiety, that is medicated with Benzos via my CMHT, and a truck load of therapy.

The best way to spot a bullshitter is to ask how an anxiety or panic attack physically manifests in them.

They will look confused. They won’t be able to describe it because they’ve never experienced it.

Ask them what other areas of their life it obstructs. Again, confusion.

What they mean is - I’m feeling a normal level of nervousness because I’m out of my depth/didn’t prepare properly/just can’t be arsed.

^ This.

I'm fed up with useless fucking managers who think it's my job to sort out their crap. It's not. Your staff - you do it! I will support and advise you but I'm not their manager - you are! It's part and parcel of managing staff.

100% agree. As you say, definitely not all, but some are experts at using the “my mental health/anxiety” routine. Over the last 2 years both DH & I have been diagnosed with & treated for cancer, and yet my young colleague was the one who took 4 months off because he was too anxious to come in because the buses were always difficult & he worried he would be late for work 🤬
To be fair to my employer, they were (& still are) fantastic with me & my ongoing medical appointments, but they did nothing to help my team leader with him.
I feel for the OP in a big way!