To disagree with social services?

[Lilyfrilly]

I’m hoping someone here works in social services or just has some knowledge and advice.
name changed for this post.
my 4 children have been on a child protection plan since February this year. We go to core group meetings every 6 weeks with the professionals, to discuss how the plan is going and if we’ve done what has been asked of us.
we’ve gone from having a bad relationship with some of the professionals, to having a good one and working well together on the plan.
at each meeting, all the professionals are asked to give us marks out of 10. It’s gone from 3/4 to 7/8- the last few meetings have been really positive. Social worker visits unannounced at least once a week, and is always satisfied.
our next conference is in January. This is where the decision will be made on if we need to stay on child protection or can go down to child in need plans.
there is nothing more I can do than what I have done. Things are going well.
however, my social worker has said not to get my hopes up as although things are going well now, they have concerns things might not go so well again in the future.
bit surely in that case, we would just go back up to child protection again.
If that is the reason they use to keep us on the CP plan, then they could always say that reason since no one can see into the future. So my question is…. If at the next conference, it’s decided we need to stay on child protection, would I be wise to just accept that or can I challenge it? I can’t see how we would still meet the threshold but I’m anxious now.
i feel like I can’t do any more than what I have. I’ve also heard CP plans can’t last more than 2 years. But the thought of another year of this…

The state that we have to get into (and in turn damage our children with as they’ve witnessed it) before we get any help for our MH is a fucking joke. You should have had far more from the NHS to prevent you from getting into that state. The NHS failed you, your children and your DH.

Thanks to social services, I got the help I needed for my mental health. Although it’s not been easy and it’s been a long road to get here. But without them, I would likely be dead. Most importantly, without them, my children could be even more damaged than they already were.

I thought very early on that this would probably be due to mh and/ or the difficulties that can come with parenting a child with a severe disability

As you know mh can decline really quickly and I think they just want to make sure they can act quickly to help you and your family if it does

It sounds like both you and your partner have been under enormous pressure, I think those people who are looking after children with disabilities know how hard it is and how it can affect your mh, also the other dc who like you say don't have the typical family/experiences due to having a sibling with sn and parents struggling with their mh

Well done for all the positives , it sounds like you as a family have come far this year.

If it was me I'd continue working with ss and taking any support they offer. I doubt very much they are going to want to keep you, or anyone for that matter on cp if they can see positive changes that you stick to over a prolonged period. They have too much to do and too many other families for that

Good luck to you and your family

Well in that case… trust their decision whatever that is

If at the next conference, it’s decided we need to stay on child protection, would I be wise to just accept that or can I challenge it?

Seconded. My DP has suffered with MH and substance abuse issues. SS not interested provided he showed he was engaging with recovery support and extra not interested because they knew I was here and not facing the same issues.

Please don't think if you're reading this that getting help for your MH or addiction issues will result in your children being taken away.

I know someone else (not close but a friend's partner) who attempted to get themselves sectioned while pregnant and all babies/children are still in their care. MH is not some kind of green light to remove DC from parents.

Oh Lily, you’ve had a terrible time, I’m not surprised you’ve found things so hard. When you hit rock bottom it can be impossible to look after yourself, never mind 4 kids. SS have kept the kids with you because they can see how much you love them and they know you’ll be brilliant if given enough time and support. I’m so glad you are getting the help you all need. It’ll be painful to do another year of CP, but remember what you’re aiming to achieve and how far you’ve come with their support so far. There is light at the end of the tunnel and you’re going to get there.

You sound like a good example of the system “working” OP, at least once things hit crisis point (and if only there were sufficient early intervention services that might have stopped things getting that far). You’re engaging with professionals, you’re getting support for yourself as well as your children, and hopefully (and most importantly) they are safer and happier as a result. I really wouldn’t worry too much about coming off CP - they won’t keep you there any longer than is necessary and while you’re on it, you can continue to avail yourself of all the support offered. Sounds like you’ve come a long way in less than a year - and it’s great to hear how positive you are about your family’s social worker!

Are you medication compliant/have the correct (well, whatever one works best with the least worst side effects?) medications? (I ask because I see you’re having/had therapy so need to ask that).

We had Early Help last year and they were far more successful at getting my disabled child/me/my other children what they needed than the NHS who repeatedly brushed us off (our GP, my Psych, and the MH nurse at our surgery PLUS school had fought like dogs to get us the referrals needed for various hospital departments, to no avail…) but as soon as EH were involved, all of a sudden my child is on XYZ wait list within weeks, after 15 months of basically telling me to piss off.

I hear you.

OP I have respect by the truckload for the parents of disabled kids (and the disabled adults they turn into) for what they achieve in a system that's pretty fucking broken! You're in the process of turning it around - I can imagine they're just concerned you'll maintain that when times get tough (I know from my own work that puberty can open a whole lot of cans of worms for the families of those with severe disabilities), so I'd be asking them to switch the focus to planning with a view toward what is going to happen for your child when they hit the point between child and adult services (because the fobbing off attempts start before age 16 round here - and we squish 'em down pretty fast - this is a MASSIVE ranting point of mine!) and a staying well plan for you.

Once they're sure you're going to stay in the place you are now mentally they'll back off a bit but I know they hear lots of promises and backsliding so they're very cautious where kids are concerned. You're well on the way though - hang onto that, and while you're at this level - get as much help as they're prepared to offer while the offers are coming in!

The threshold for a child protection plan is risk of significant harm.
Therefore the professionals must deem that this threshold has been met in order for a CPP to remain in place. If you don't agree with the decision you still have the right to challenge it and it will be looked at by higher management to ensure the conference chair has made the correct decision

Something I had to work on was how I react to others if I disagreed with them or had an issue with something / someone. A concern was if I was happy enough to show that level of aggression in public, in front of professionals, including the police, what were my children exposed to at home.
Although I knew I was never aggressive towards them, never smacked them, obviously SS wouldn’t know that based on how I was with everyone else.
i did a 3 month course on how we handle emotions, how our actions affect others (especially our children) it was really interesting as well to learn about the different parts of the brain, to understand why I was the way I am, to take responsibility for my actions and words and how to handle conflict in a healthy way. In the 6 weekly core group meetings, this is now something that always comes up in ‘what things are going well’ - that I now engage properly with everyone, I’m not rude, abusive, aggressive. They speak of examples of things that have happened recently are handled very differently to how I would have handled it this time last year.

@Lilyfrilly just wanted to say you are amazing. You've clearly had a hugely difficult time, most of us would have struggled to deal with just one of those challenges while you've been juggling multiple at the same time. Well done for trying to get help, I'm so sorry that our incredibly broken system let you down but pleased it is now finally giving you the support you need and deserve. Keep taking everything they offer, once they're not involved it will likely be up to you to argue for that support yourself and I know first hand how hard that is and how rarely it's successful. You rock ❤️

I have children with SEN myself and have ADHD and mental health issues.

I've spoken to absolutely everybody this year about intrusive thoughts, suicidal ideation and how I feel the children need additional support. Absolutely astonished nothing has happened to help us. Aside from one service referring to another service, and waiting 6 weeks for that service to pick up etc.

I had absolutely no idea how horrific and isolating it is. And how even if you SHOUT REALLY LOUD nobody comes running. I always assumed people were let down by those who internalised their difficulties rather than ask for support. There's no support to give.

I couldn't do it without my partner who is my kids "safe parent" too. I understand how you got to catastrophic levels and it sounds like you've all been working really hard. Surviving on the disruptive sleep you do for so many years must have really taken it's toll. You're being authentic, vulnerable, realistic and supportive to your kids - SW cannot ask for more. Another term or so on the plan wont hurt and you can rest knowing that your children are being cushioned a little bit longer. If they need the support, it's there

@Lilyfrilly , I don't know all the SS legalities so can't really "advise," r.e. how to get off CPP, but just wanted to say it sounds like you are doing amazingly. I, ( as I expect most of the posters on this thread), would be struggling immensely in your situation. Recognise how well you've done to get things as improved as they are, and allow yourself to congratulate yourself.

I'd like to see the utter dickheads on this thread who are getting off on making snide remarks via the internet, (aren't you hard 🙄) act as solo carers for an extremely disabled child whilst parenting three other children for 14 years without once cracking.

You know those lazy slackers with their gold plated pensions only work about 50 hours a week. How dare they try to protect children. Parents know best.🙄

Wow OP, sounds like you have really turned a corner on your MH which will be so beneficial for you and your DC.

Could you ask if there are any other courses you could go on should you remain on the CPP?

Hey OP, sounds like you've been through a lot. As a former CP SW for a number of years I'd say try not to focus on the goal being deregistration, instead think of the needs on the CP plan and the goal is for them all to be consistently met. You're clearly working well with agencies so keep up the good work for the children and hopefully support can step down gradually. The worry would be deregistration too soon might not just end up back in CP, Social Services may consider a need for legal advice etc. Hence it's so important that the intervention at this stage is really robust to avoid things escalating and potentially causing the children further harm or breaking down.

Sending support as you're clearly trying your best to own any past mistakes and make things better ❤️

Really?

I mean I've no idea how thus is scored, but does it really expect higher scores?!

Most of us would score our parents lower than 7/8.... My dad was 10/10 to be fair, we think my mum us an undiagnosed bipolar, so we understand her issues as adults.

I’ve had to go back into the bedroom to take off my judgy pants. OP you have been refreshingly honest and open. I applaud you on the steps you have taken to do the best for your family under such adversity.

If I was in your situation I'd WANT to stay on CP plan. Is it nice ? No. But with that comes a watchful eye to keep you on your toes and the potential of support.

In your rush to get off the plan dont forget the good it's done for your dc......there was a really sad neglect case in local to me recently. The mum and children had been thriving under a CP plan, when that support stopped she snowballed again. (( mum had MH problems )) It needn't have happened that way and it was just sad all round........start pushing now for resources and support for when the CP team step away. It shows you're thinking long term and don't mind having some involvement and people checking in.

Thank you to everyone that has commented. I hadn’t considered that it’s not just a case of moving back to child protection if they felt my children were at risk. And that actually we might never meet the threshold again, and the CIN plans might not be enough, therefore my children falling through the gaps.
also, it’s helped to read some comments here that see the plan in a positive light. And for me to embrace the support my children are getting- and all of us as a family. So I won’t debate it in January if that is their decision.

Actually, I’m even thinking that would be the better decision anyway. For the level of support to continue. Another six months might really make the end decision clear to the professionals and to us too.

People get hung up on the scores but they are pretty meaningless. I expect your local authority uses the Signs of Safety model. The chair at conference or SW at core group will say something like "if 0 were no safety and 10 as safe with no worries, how would you rate the situation now" and "what would it take to get from a 6 to 7". It's just a way to get people involved to commit to a position and work in a solution focussed way.

I had similar issues in my 20s because it was an ingrained trauma response from a childhood of physical abuse/addict parents. [Flew under the radar as a Naice Middle Class Family] It’s really hard to undo that. I’m late 30s now and whilst the majority of my triggers are under control, every now and then one of the fuckers sneaks up on me and I do explode.

My voice would automatically rise to a shout and I wasn’t even aware of it. Which made me look aggressive/hysterical/insert other misogynistic word here. It took a while to master keeping my voice level when upset (because I’d get angry rather than show fear or upset due to fear/tears getting me a further beating as a child). To the point I started whispering whenever I felt my emotions slide But it worked.

CPTSD/insomnia/GAD/TRD all a result of my childhood, and the ADHD just makes it so much harder. I’ll say that the ADHD meds have done far more for my emotional regulation than any AD, Benzo, anti psychotic etc. Which surprised me.

I’m forever bouncing back to my therapy notes to remind myself of coping mechanisms etc. It’s a constant maintenance thing, it’s tedious and exhausting.

You sound as though you’ve obviously not had it easy and you except that you’ve got it wrong but your mental health is not something you’ve had control over until now. You’re doing what you need to do to put things right now. I have no advice but I just wanted to say well done and good luck 💕