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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To disagree with social services?

297 replies

Lilyfrilly · 01/12/2022 13:37

I’m hoping someone here works in social services or just has some knowledge and advice.
name changed for this post.
my 4 children have been on a child protection plan since February this year. We go to core group meetings every 6 weeks with the professionals, to discuss how the plan is going and if we’ve done what has been asked of us.
we’ve gone from having a bad relationship with some of the professionals, to having a good one and working well together on the plan.
at each meeting, all the professionals are asked to give us marks out of 10. It’s gone from 3/4 to 7/8- the last few meetings have been really positive. Social worker visits unannounced at least once a week, and is always satisfied.
our next conference is in January. This is where the decision will be made on if we need to stay on child protection or can go down to child in need plans.
there is nothing more I can do than what I have done. Things are going well.
however, my social worker has said not to get my hopes up as although things are going well now, they have concerns things might not go so well again in the future.
bit surely in that case, we would just go back up to child protection again.
If that is the reason they use to keep us on the CP plan, then they could always say that reason since no one can see into the future. So my question is…. If at the next conference, it’s decided we need to stay on child protection, would I be wise to just accept that or can I challenge it? I can’t see how we would still meet the threshold but I’m anxious now.
i feel like I can’t do any more than what I have. I’ve also heard CP plans can’t last more than 2 years. But the thought of another year of this…

OP posts:
BittenontheBum · 03/12/2022 11:53

You will get an opportunity to (calmly) say why you agree/don't agree with any decisions made about your family. I'm not sure but I think you don't live in the same part of the UK as me, but you may be able to appeal in writing.
BUT these measures will be in place for the safety of your children. They are not to annoy you or make your life difficult.
Yes all the meetings and unannounced visits are a pain but the authorities HAVE to ensure that they are getting it right for your kids.
My advice is stay calm.

WaddleAway · 03/12/2022 12:00

Feef83 · 03/12/2022 11:36

I do own it, but I honestly did try and get help.

I read it as the Op tried but by the time SS actually got involved… it was thrust upon her rather than as a result of her result.

She tried to get help. She knew there was a problem. The fact that she was ignored is not her fault. She got help in the end and is turning things around.

Feef83 · 03/12/2022 12:17

Indeed

MoriaRoseForever · 03/12/2022 14:49

queenMab99 · 01/12/2022 17:18

We sometimes see desperate posts on here, from parents who are living terribly difficult lives, and are unable to cope any longer, I always wonder how bad things have to be before social services intervene, with help for the families with disabled children. It seems OP had got to that point, so why are pp blaming her for not being able to access mental health and other help sooner, before her children were in need of protection. This must be the way the system works, so some emotional damage has to be seen occurring from neglect and emotional abuse, before any help is given. No need to tell OP, she needs to 'own it' , as she obviously did 'own it' in advance, but got no help previously.
Please have a bit of compassion.

As a child who watched a parent make suicide attempts , who was emotionally abused by the parents mental health, I make no apologies for what I said . The trauma is with me for life . To have a parent be like that, to be worried and anxious watching , is so damaging . As a child I tried to help them. I felt responsible . Not safe or secure.

there is so much research out there journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2156869320912520

My point is , focus on what is best for the children and not on getting off CP. It sounds like the right support is there . Grab it as it’s hard to get .

I have read more of the updates . Of course I have empathy . My frustration was with the focus on challenging staying on CP. If it’s helping , accept it . It’s helping and it’s focus is the children.

MoriaRoseForever · 03/12/2022 14:55

Lilyfrilly · 01/12/2022 17:23

Thank you. I struggled for most of 2019 with my mental health. I did seek help. I went to the Gp, the hospital, phoned the police… many times. I phoned social services myself every day for 3 weeks. And then I got a social worker. I begged them to help and said my children were not safe. I was discharged after a 24 hour sectioning for attempting suicide and I told the doctors I had intrusive thoughts about crashing my car into a tree with the children inside. I literally screamed for help and it took too long. My children witnessed me standing in the street with a knife slagging my face open in a psychotic episode. On one occasion they couldn’t wake me up as I had taken too many sleeping pills. I do own it, but I honestly did try and get help. For too long

Show quote history

And you have the help now l you should have got it before. But don’t focus on what you didn’t get , focus on having it now and stop focusing on getting off CP and “i feel like I can’t do any more than what I have. I’ve also heard CP plans can’t last more than 2 years. But the thought of another year of this…”

A year is nothing , what is the issue with another year of support ? Reading what your children have witnessed k this will take years of support for them. I am talking as that child, the damage never totally goes away . So please , accept the help and don’t focus on getting off CP. CP is what is getting the help for your children. Please focus on that . If you accept the need for more help, that is showing SW that you are doing all you can. You can do more, doing more is accepting this taking longer and being in CP longer. It Ken’s keep don’t what you are doing . I wish you and your family the best . I hope your mental health is better and you are getting the support . It’s tough being a carer full time .

eveoha · 03/12/2022 15:02

OP I find your the tone of your posts quite concerning ☘️☘️

kitcat15 · 03/12/2022 15:18

Feef83 · 03/12/2022 08:30

That is the Children with Disabilities Social Work team.

Not social services as in this scenario

Of course it’s social services ……fuck me, I’ve heard it all now…..some people could cause an argument in an empty room 🙄

MoriaRoseForever · 03/12/2022 15:20

Doodadoo · 01/12/2022 17:03

You only have to be diagnosed with a mental health condition (depression, anxiety) to be labelled as emotionally abusing your child. It's utter bollocks.

Show quote history

Please read up on the impact on children of parental mental Ill health .
and depression and anxiety has its impacts on children. It’s not a minor thing .
www.yalemedicine.org/conditions/how-parental-depression-affects-child

Don’ t miminmise as just depression.

MoriaRoseForever · 03/12/2022 15:21

Doodadoo · 01/12/2022 17:04

Do you know what the emotional abuse will have entailed?

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Is there an ok type then ?

AssumingDirectControl · 03/12/2022 15:36

Feef83 · 03/12/2022 08:30

That is the Children with Disabilities Social Work team.

Not social services as in this scenario

Most of these teams also undertake child protection work where needed.

MoriaRoseForever · 03/12/2022 15:37

Lilyfrilly · 02/12/2022 00:10

There are so many lovely comments here- I wish I could respond to you all, but it would take me a while 😅 so to everyone that has been supportive, kind, offered advice - you’ve been amazing. It’s useful to hear from social workers as well, and now I have a much better understanding of why they might be reluctant to take us off CP in a months time.

Because yes things are going well, but they might need to see this continue for longer, and it might be more realistic to prepare ourselves to stay on it, and review at the next conference, Why do I want to come off it has been asked a few times. I guess it’s because it’s intrusive. And I know it has to be, but that doesn’t mean I’m always comfortable with it. As the visits are unannounced, and of course I just have to let the SW in. And we get on well now and the children have a lovely relationship with her… she has a great sense of humour.

When I answer the door she might sag something like ‘I know how much you love my visits.’ And I will reply ‘oh Karen. How lovely to see you.’ 🤣
I’ve got used to it now and carry on with whatever I’m doing. If I’m cooking, she will sit in the dining room and chat to me, or go play with the kids.
She keeps telling me she’s proud of me and at the meetings her opinion is that the children’s emotional well being is good, that they are always happy to talk to her.

My 9 year old is so empathetic and so mature, the other day she said ‘I like this calm and cool mum you are now. You’ve really changed’ - I had gone to collect her from netball after school at 4.30pm and she wasn’t there. It was pitch black. Teachers searched the playground, car park, school- she was found ten minutes later. She was meant to wait until she seen her parent, but she hadn’t done that. Obviously that was actually the schools safeguarding breach and they were very apologetic that she had managed to just leave. This time last year, I would have absolutely lost my head and gone off on a massive rant at the teachers. But now, I just gave my dd a hug, explained why she must wait for me, and said to the school she’s safe and that’s the main thing, but I would like to discuss this tomorrow please, so we can make sure it doesn’t happen again.

I caught the look on my dds face. It was like relief. It’s a massive wake up call to think of all the times she has seen me be angry and handle situations like that. How scared she must have been not knowing if something or someone was going to set me off. How unpredictable and inconsistent my parenting had been.
(my partner is nothing like me and handles things like a mature adult)

And now I’m doing what I should have done all along. I have mental health issues but that doesn’t excuse my behaviour when it’s aggressive and abusive to others. And now I’m finally setting an example of how to handle conflict the right way.

one time I completely trashed my kitchen as I couldn’t find my medication. So that’s another example of how we got to child protection.

The worda empathetic and mature really hit home. Children, and I was one, have to grow up fast often when their parent has mental health problems or is aggressive to staff etc.

it’s being a little adult, having to parent the parent and try to wake them when had an overdose or smooth things over when they get angry with teachers .

please keep this in mind . Your child you talk about here, they have had to become mature and empathetic . They have had to grow up faster and deal with thi gs that children shouldn’t have to .

Feef83 · 03/12/2022 15:54

eveoha · 03/12/2022 15:02

OP I find your the tone of your posts quite concerning ☘️☘️

I do too.

I think because a lot of it sounds very “learned” re what’s going to appeal to the ears of SS

Original poster
Lilyfrilly · 03/12/2022 16:23

Feef83 · 03/12/2022 08:30

That is the Children with Disabilities Social Work team.

Not social services as in this scenario

my Children’s social worker is from the children’s disability team. My posts should hopefully give enough back Story, but in short, after a mental health breakdown in 2019 (from 11 years of being a carer to my severely disabled child and lack of support breaking me) we were assigned a SW from the disability team. As the issue was we needed more support for him, for my others and for me and my partner. Because of my parenting at that time with my MH the way it was, all 4 children went on a CIN plan. 7 months later 2 of them came off it and we all agreed to keep the other 2 on (the other one has some mild health issues / mental health ) things didn’t get better. My partner who was the ‘Safe’ adult ended up having a break down.
I have gave examples of a few scenarios that happened that show I’m not excusing my parenting all on mental health. I am owning it. Now we have good support and things are going well. The end plan is to go back to CIN. My daughters being taken off it completely and my sons kept on due to respite, direct payments, additional support , advocacy etc.

And yes there is always a reason for having a social worker.
not everyone has one. Many people NEED one but that’s a whole other issue.

we have been very grateful for their support. My children have a chance of a happy future.

OP posts:
Original poster
Lilyfrilly · 03/12/2022 16:26

Feef83 · 03/12/2022 15:54

I do too.

I think because a lot of it sounds very “learned” re what’s going to appeal to the ears of SS

Show quote history

There isn’t really much I can say to change your opinion and you’re obviously entitled to that and I understand.

I actually tell the social worker things that most would try and hide (as I , if I make a mistake I tell her. If my mental health dips I tell her and seek help and never pretend I’m ok if I’m not.)

they wouldn’t have even know most of the things that led us here, if I hadn’t of always been honest.

OP posts:
Original poster
Lilyfrilly · 03/12/2022 16:28

MoriaRoseForever · 03/12/2022 15:37

The worda empathetic and mature really hit home. Children, and I was one, have to grow up fast often when their parent has mental health problems or is aggressive to staff etc.

it’s being a little adult, having to parent the parent and try to wake them when had an overdose or smooth things over when they get angry with teachers .

please keep this in mind . Your child you talk about here, they have had to become mature and empathetic . They have had to grow up faster and deal with thi gs that children shouldn’t have to .

Show quote history

Absolutely. I was that child too. And I didn’t think I would ever mess up parenting having not been parented myself as a child. That is something I will always feel ashamed of and something I will never forgive. So I will work with SS to give my children what they deserved all along and continue to put them first

OP posts:
Original poster
Lilyfrilly · 03/12/2022 16:31

MoriaRoseForever · 03/12/2022 14:55

And you have the help now l you should have got it before. But don’t focus on what you didn’t get , focus on having it now and stop focusing on getting off CP and “i feel like I can’t do any more than what I have. I’ve also heard CP plans can’t last more than 2 years. But the thought of another year of this…”

A year is nothing , what is the issue with another year of support ? Reading what your children have witnessed k this will take years of support for them. I am talking as that child, the damage never totally goes away . So please , accept the help and don’t focus on getting off CP. CP is what is getting the help for your children. Please focus on that . If you accept the need for more help, that is showing SW that you are doing all you can. You can do more, doing more is accepting this taking longer and being in CP longer. It Ken’s keep don’t what you are doing . I wish you and your family the best . I hope your mental health is better and you are getting the support . It’s tough being a carer full time .

Show quote history

Thank you - honestly, This post has helped so much to the point that I will say even I think CP should continue and then review at 6 months. (We do get asked in the meetings where we think we should be. I said CP at the first review. I planned to say CIN in January. I will now say CP!)

OP posts:
Original poster
Lilyfrilly · 03/12/2022 16:35

I’ve also become aware that I’ve outed myself completely. Some of my life is public. Enough detail is here that has not been hard for people to work out.(I’ve got 3 messages as being recognised by newspaper stories (local) and my blog on Sm.

OP posts:
Original poster
Lilyfrilly · 03/12/2022 16:42

I’ve mentioned the above as the messages have been sent to my blog page as they are concerned someone else might be writing this and not me.
so I’m clarifying that they are correct.

OP posts:
MoriaRoseForever · 03/12/2022 16:44

Lilyfrilly · 03/12/2022 16:31

Thank you - honestly, This post has helped so much to the point that I will say even I think CP should continue and then review at 6 months. (We do get asked in the meetings where we think we should be. I said CP at the first review. I planned to say CIN in January. I will now say CP!)

Show quote history

I know some posters have thought me harsh, I’m just trying to get across how it feels to be the child. I’ve been that child.

I wish you and your family well and I’m glad posting here has helped you . I’m glad you and your family are being helped.

Sindonym · 03/12/2022 16:47

Change your name OP or you will have this brought up on multiple threads.

I think asking for CP to continue for the moment is wise given how helpful they have been in providing support. We were never under a CPP but I cried when my son’s social worker moved across into practice education (it was less than a year before my son turned 18, but still). A good social worker can be such a help & yours does sound good.

entropynow · 03/12/2022 17:41

BadNomad · 03/12/2022 09:02

Yeah, I actually think in my area it is "children's services" until 18, then you go into "adult disability services". Adult disability services aren't great. A lot of parents struggle with that transition. The children's social workers seem to be more involved and proactive.

Maybe because it's about the same number of them for 0-18 year olds as there are for 18-65+ year olds... But hey, adults disability workers are just lazy and uncommitted.

Ignorant and infuriating comment. Most of my former colleagues are cracking under the stress...as was I until I inherited money and was able to leave the 50 hour weeks and weekend urgent emails behind...

BadNomad · 03/12/2022 18:53

entropynow · 03/12/2022 17:41

Maybe because it's about the same number of them for 0-18 year olds as there are for 18-65+ year olds... But hey, adults disability workers are just lazy and uncommitted.

Ignorant and infuriating comment. Most of my former colleagues are cracking under the stress...as was I until I inherited money and was able to leave the 50 hour weeks and weekend urgent emails behind...

Show quote history

It's not an ignorant comment. It's an observation and one you just confirmed by saying there is a higher workload in adult services, which means they can't offer the same level of involvement as childrens. No one said adults workers are "lazy and uncommitted". I said childrens are more involved and proactive because they are, because they can be.

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