The Lady Hussey racism thing

[Tiiiiiiiiiiired]

I am really conflicted about this.

If went to live in Japan (I did live there for 3 years several years ago) I would be expected to be asked about where I'm from because I don't look Japanese (and in fact I was asked many times! I didn't mind at all, it was my choice to be in Japan and I knew I didn't look japanese). If I chose to stay in that country and have children, I'd expect my children would be asked the same, and their children and that although they would be Japanese by birth, I would hope they would be happy to talk about their heritage and where they are from and not mind being asked why they don't look Japanese and what the history is. I wouldnt think it racist and wouldn't want such questions to be stopped because we only learn from others, and about others, by talking and feeling safe to ask questions.

So why in the UK does everyone have to be sooo careful with what they say? This woman has a non English name, was wearing some non western clothing, as was asked about her heritage. Why is this abuse?

We need to stop being so sensitive and allow dialogue.

I haven’t made any judgement. I merely corrected your assertion that people were talking about headgear. Stop making things up, it’s boring.

Ah yes the insatiable demand for proof. Such an obvious tactic.

Ah yes the insatiable demand for proof. Such an obvious tactic.

First time I hear that asking for proof is a 'tactic'. What happened to innocent until proved guilty and all that?

So you’re saying Lady SH has demanded that the matter be scrutinised and that ‘proof’ be found to justify her resignation?

Just out of interest @Squeezita are you black? Do you think that only black people can have a view on this?

Neither, actually. I just have a different opinion as I simply don't see the racist content. Which is allowed, you know.

We’re not in a court of law, nobody is being asked to ‘prove’ anything and that is very clearly not the reason every aspect of NF’s character is being forensically examined in a way that Lady SH’s isn’t. I’m sad that you can’t see that.

Do you actually know this or are you speculating? Im assuming there's someone in the palace that she could have contacted. I know very little about day to day workings of the palace (Im no royalist by any stretch of the imagination) but even I'm pretty sure the new Queen consort who I believe organised the event has a private secretary. A formal letter to him/her detailing her complaint and requesting action be taken could have given them a chance to thoroughly investigate this issue. In the light of the comments made by the Duchess of Sussex Im pretty sure the RF and their appointed hangers on are very keen not to be seen as racist and also to be seen to deal with any racism pretty smartly.

So you’re saying Lady SH has demanded that the matter be scrutinised and that ‘proof’ be found to justify her resignation?

No, I didn't. Please read my previous post

I said ’Some white person upthread decided she was wearing an Igbo dress.’ I didn’t say ‘headgear’, whatever that’s supposed to mean. Is that like a hard hat?

And here is that post, from another thread where white people are suddenly experts on Igbo culture 😂

Victim: LS was racist
Witnesses: LS was racist
Palace: LS was racist we are sorry
LS: I was racist I am sorry

Some MN's: we need a more in depth investigation. We don't believe this happened. We don't believe it's racist.

If I got accused of (for example) stealing at work. And the first time I got asked about it, before any formal investigation, I admitted it and resigned, my workplace is hardly going to launch a huge investigation to work out if I need to be exonerated or not.

Innocent until proven guilty isn't required when the guilty party admits their guilt. People in court who plead guilty don't have a trial to then prove it.

And actually, no I wouldn’t.

If I made comments at work that someone found offensive then I would apologise and hope that the matter would be dealt with fairly.

I wouldn’t be demanding ‘proof’ of me saying something that I knew I had said.

I would only start asking for ‘proof’ if I felt someone was lying.

Neither Lady SH or the palace have demanded ‘proof’ because they aren’t disputing what happened. They aren’t suggesting anyone has lied.

There is no need for NF to prove anything here and there is no need for the court of public opinion to drag her and dissect every aspect of her character to get to the bottom of what happened.

Sorry, you were having some to and fro with some other poster upthread about headdresses and dresses and I couldn’t be bothered to go back and unpick it all. I used headgear as I couldn’t remember what you and the other poster were arguing about, no ulterior motive.

No, I’m an Asian woman who is used to be being asked ‘where are you really from’ by white people and then have to watch their reaction to work out what kind of person I’m dealing with.

I also have to play Russian Roulette with random white people I come across, wondering if the person approaching me is going to be polite or call me a P*. It’s usually the former but the latter fucks you up.

47% of complaints nowadays are made via social media. It is a socially (no pun intended) acceptable method of conveying complaints. Are you also complaining about the rest of the 47% of complaints done by social media or just the one that you happen to know was done by a black woman put of interest?

So maybe you shouldn’t go around assuming the race of other posters.

This.

Despite all of Horse's crying and whinging, I'd imagine a long serving member of staff would've been given a fair hearing by her employer. She's a godmother and was close to the queen so am sure the royal family would've supported her, if she was whiter than white. After all, fairness and justice is the English way and they're powerful enough to brush off even Andrew's misgivings.

But she accepted her fate, because she knew she was wrong. Quite why horse and others want to keep defending someone who's already accepted their guilt is beyond me but can imagine intellect isn't a strong point.

People are free to state their race if they want to correct me, I haven’t asked anyone their race.

Funny that I’ve shared my experience of racism and you’ve offered zero sympathy.

Good thing I wasn’t expecting any huh?

LADY SH in my opinion is allowed to give her side of the story. There are a variety of options here: she's an inherent racist she knew what she was saying was offensive but couldn't care less. Maybe the palace knew she's was a racist but just lacked the actual proof of this or the will to do anything about it when the Queen was alive and now they are now cracking open the champagne the racist old bat has gone. Or as this women has lived a life of extreme privilege maybe she just didn't fully grasp or understand how inappropriate her questioning is, she meant well but being totally clueless she managed to behave in a totally crass and offensive way. Or maybe she realised immediately that she was in the wrong by asking the question and had dug herself into a bit of a hole embarrassed she tried to salvage it and forgot the basic principle: when you're in a hole stop digging. Or maybe she'd spent the last hour making small talk with the loads of people who lets face it don't really want to talk to you but to the new Queen and she just came out with the wrong questions because she was running out of conversation and just said the first thing that came into her head and for some weird reason was just not picking up on the responses and didn't let it go. Or maybe it was a bit of everything. We will never know. But I don't like trial by media, and I very much doubt that Ngozi has never done or said the wrong thing. SH is entitled to put her side of the story (not in public) as is everyone who a complaint is made against and having done this for those investigating to come up with an appropriate response taking into consideration previous behaviour..

Yes fine, I wouldn't because I'm not an idiot but I get almost this exact phrase thrown at me and I know what they mean.

I phrased that in a deliberately incendiary way because I was annoyed, sorry about that. Maybe a better way of expressing this point is that terms like "British" or "Kenyan" are overloaded, in that they can sometimes mean the nationality and sometimes the dominant ethnicity in that country.

I'm not going to comment on the Lady H situation but to OP's general point, yes, I agree that in some cases it's very clear that ethnicity is being asked and it's annoying to just wilfully misunderstand. There are other ways to get out of heritage/culture conversations if you want to, trust me I know.

If this happened at work and you had to resign as a result, you would absolutely demand proof and scrutiny.

Only if you are disputing what happened. Lady SH isn't disputing what happened. I think she probably fessed up as soon as the RF asked her about it.

i wasn’t aware you were posting for sympathy. It was a straight forward question. I would never assume someone’s race but you are happy to do so. I guess we are just different. You are wrong BTW.

"But she accepted her fate, because she knew she was wrong."
Thats a bit naive. Im not saying her comments weren't racist but I strongly suspect that her main motivation for accepting her fate was because she didn't want the issue of racism hanging over the RF (of whom she's been loyal to for 60+ years), especially as Netflix are about to start a series about the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. In all likelihood she was advised by officials at the palace and also realised for herself that the quickest and cleanest way to prevent this from dragging on and in the hope that the whole thing will blow over quickly and thus stop bringing the RF into disrepute (God knows they've got enough problems) was to say I shouldn't have done it and I resign. End of story (hopefully)

taking into consideration previous behaviour..

We do not know about previous inappropriate behaviour by Lady SH.

On the other hand, one would need to be quite in denial to not form an opinion of the accuser's ideas based on just the link below

futurehackney.com/ngozi

Many would say that scrutiny is very much needed in this case