Page 31 | The Lady Hussey racism thing

Tiiiiiiiiiiired · 2022-12-01T10:58:36+00:00

I am really conflicted about this. If went to live in Japan (I did live there for 3 years several years ago) I would be expected to be asked about where I'm from because I don't look Japanese (and in fact I was asked many times! I didn't mind at all, it was my choice to be in Japan and I knew I didn't look japanese). If I chose to stay in that country and have children, I'd expect my children would be asked the same, and their children and that although they would be Japanese by birth, I would hope they would be happy to talk about their heritage and where they are from and not mind being asked why they don't look Japanese and what the history is. I wouldnt think it racist and wouldn't want such questions to be stopped because we only learn from others, and about others, by talking and feeling safe to ask questions. So why in the UK does everyone have to be sooo careful with what they say? This woman has a non English name, was wearing some non western clothing, as was asked about her heritage. Why is this abuse? We need to stop being so sensitive and allow dialogue.

bellabasset · 01/12/2022 20:34

I think that physically touching an invited guest to check her pass was unnecessary, she was discourteous and possibly arrogant in the way she spoke to Ngozi. I certainly wouldn't make any assumption about a person's heritage based on their choice of clothing.

My df was an Irish Catholic married to an English Protestant and living in London after WW2. There were prejudices against the Irish, Catholics, Jews, Italians, Germans and even the Polish who fought with the Allies. My df had no prejudices and didn't prejudge people.

I'm sorry that Ngozi was treated in this way by someone in a position where she should have been setting an example of good manners and welcome to guests invited to the Palace.

Heavyraindropsarefallingonmyhead · 01/12/2022 20:37

dollymixtured · 01/12/2022 20:29

For your sake I am going to pretend that you didn’t just try equate a conversation with rape.

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Well pretending conversations aren't what they are is your speciality.

But fair enough if you don't like the example I understand that, it was perhaps a little extreme. I was going for something that is equally as hard to get the police to press charges for. But not I wasn't equating rape with racist remarks, I was explaining the flaw in your logic using a different example, in no way did I say the offences were of the same magnitude or related.

theresaratinthekitchen · 01/12/2022 20:38

futurehackney.com/ngozi

In this she said Headley was her father's name.

dollymixtured · 01/12/2022 20:38

Heavyraindropsarefallingonmyhead · 01/12/2022 20:37

Well pretending conversations aren't what they are is your speciality.

But fair enough if you don't like the example I understand that, it was perhaps a little extreme. I was going for something that is equally as hard to get the police to press charges for. But not I wasn't equating rape with racist remarks, I was explaining the flaw in your logic using a different example, in no way did I say the offences were of the same magnitude or related.

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it is probably easier for you to just ask for your post be deleted as apparently it doesn’t say what you intended to say.

Heavyraindropsarefallingonmyhead · 01/12/2022 20:39

Sometimeswinning · 01/12/2022 20:33

Worrying isn't it!? Rape is traumatic and violent. This was at worse extremely offensive.

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Again, I didn't equate rape and racism. And o I'm not sure what there is to worry about. Unless you are a rapist or a racist I guess.

And for full clarity I have been raped. So I do understand that it's traumatic and violent.

It's amazing how many people are trying to minimise people's experience of racism on this thread though.

Heavyraindropsarefallingonmyhead · 01/12/2022 20:39

dollymixtured · 01/12/2022 20:38

it is probably easier for you to just ask for your post be deleted as apparently it doesn’t say what you intended to say.

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No

dollymixtured · 01/12/2022 20:41

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Pinkyxx · 01/12/2022 20:44

Racism:
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

I'm struggling to see in what way was this lady in any way prejudiced, discriminated against or antagonized as a result of her racial / ethic group?

She was clearly being asked about her heritage / ethnic decent, a pretty pedestrian question. Having lived abroad the majority of my life, I have been asked endless times about where I come from. Am I American, am I Irish, Scottish, English, French, Italian?

Even today a frequent line of questioning at work goes along these lines..

Work person: Are you French?
Me: No, I am British.
Work person: No but come on you must be at least part French, you have a French name..
Me: Nope, I am as British as they come...
Work person: No, no, no really come on. You speak French like a native and you have a French name.. you must at least have one French parent?
Me: No again.. both parents British..
Work person: wow, I really can't believe it..
Me: Look if it really interests you, I am of Irish catholic & Scottish descent, born in England, raised in about 9 different countries including France where I spent 3 years in a French school.. hence why I am bilingual..
Work person: ah... wow, how interesting!

Do I find the above offensive, marginalizing, racist? No, on a bad day when I'm busy it's mildly annoying as I want to get on with it. It's conversation, natural curiosity a desire to better understand a person and where they came from. Could I willfully misconstrue this as racism and take offence? Sure.

stuntbubbles · 01/12/2022 20:45

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Yeah, like loads of people on this thread want to be racist.

TeaKlaxon · 01/12/2022 20:51

TrickyD · 01/12/2022 17:04

Of course it’s not cultural appropriation for someone to wear a hairstyle inspired by their own heritage. It would be cultural appropriation for me as a white woman to wear a feather headdress or locs

if you wear a hairstyle and clothes inspired by your own heritage, don’t be surprised when someone asks you about that heritage.

Why?

Why the fuck does dressing in a certain way give people permission to ‘other’ them by claiming they can’t possibly be British?

minou123 · 01/12/2022 20:56

Pinkyxx · 01/12/2022 20:44

Racism:
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

I'm struggling to see in what way was this lady in any way prejudiced, discriminated against or antagonized as a result of her racial / ethic group?

She was clearly being asked about her heritage / ethnic decent, a pretty pedestrian question. Having lived abroad the majority of my life, I have been asked endless times about where I come from. Am I American, am I Irish, Scottish, English, French, Italian?

Even today a frequent line of questioning at work goes along these lines..

Work person: Are you French?
Me: No, I am British.
Work person: No but come on you must be at least part French, you have a French name..
Me: Nope, I am as British as they come...
Work person: No, no, no really come on. You speak French like a native and you have a French name.. you must at least have one French parent?
Me: No again.. both parents British..
Work person: wow, I really can't believe it..
Me: Look if it really interests you, I am of Irish catholic & Scottish descent, born in England, raised in about 9 different countries including France where I spent 3 years in a French school.. hence why I am bilingual..
Work person: ah... wow, how interesting!

Do I find the above offensive, marginalizing, racist? No, on a bad day when I'm busy it's mildly annoying as I want to get on with it. It's conversation, natural curiosity a desire to better understand a person and where they came from. Could I willfully misconstrue this as racism and take offence? Sure.

How is that in any way the same?

Ngozi is British.
You're not French.

Lunar270 · 01/12/2022 20:57

I'm struggling..

Patently. I'd give up to be honest. You'll give yourself a headache.

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/12/2022 20:58

It was not a pretty pedestrian question. According to the people that witnessed it and the Palace, it was racist, offensive and unacceptable @Pinkyxx.

NF was subjected to racism from Lady SH.

FirewomanSam · 01/12/2022 21:02

Here’s what I find interesting. Ngozi posted her recollection of what Lady SH said. In the resulting commentary on this thread all I’ve really seen said about Lady SH is that her comments were racist, her behaviour was inappropriate, and some comments about her age. I haven’t really seen anyone digging into her character or attacking her in any great detail beyond that.

Ngozi, on the other hand? We’ve had people questioning her clothing, her hairstyle, suggesting she can’t remember the conversation properly, debating why she might have changed her name, speculating about her ‘agenda’, questioning whether she was even invited to the event in the first place, debating whether she is ashamed of her own heritage, criticising her for posting on social media, calling her over sensitive, critiquing the language she has used in interviews, digging into her family and marital status, questioning whether she is good at her job and outright accusing her of lying about the whole thing… and that’s just what I can remember off the top of my head.

The black woman on the receiving end of racist remarks has been subjected to a level of scrutiny and criticism that nobody, NOBODY is interested in applying to the white woman who actually made those remarks. That says an awful lot about the society we live in, I think.

TeaKlaxon · 01/12/2022 21:03

I will simply repeat for the ignorant 45% agreeing with OP - please for the love of all that is good read a fucking book. Educate yourself.

Listen to the voices of people of colour who detail their experiences of living in a racist society.

Two of the most common manifestations of that racism that are recounted is the ‘othering’ of their Britishness and having their hair touched or felt. Can you all please stop pretending that being black in Britain is just the same having a fucking French sounding surname?! You all sound ridiculous.

TeaKlaxon · 01/12/2022 21:05

FirewomanSam · 01/12/2022 21:02

Here’s what I find interesting. Ngozi posted her recollection of what Lady SH said. In the resulting commentary on this thread all I’ve really seen said about Lady SH is that her comments were racist, her behaviour was inappropriate, and some comments about her age. I haven’t really seen anyone digging into her character or attacking her in any great detail beyond that.

Ngozi, on the other hand? We’ve had people questioning her clothing, her hairstyle, suggesting she can’t remember the conversation properly, debating why she might have changed her name, speculating about her ‘agenda’, questioning whether she was even invited to the event in the first place, debating whether she is ashamed of her own heritage, criticising her for posting on social media, calling her over sensitive, critiquing the language she has used in interviews, digging into her family and marital status, questioning whether she is good at her job and outright accusing her of lying about the whole thing… and that’s just what I can remember off the top of my head.

The black woman on the receiving end of racist remarks has been subjected to a level of scrutiny and criticism that nobody, NOBODY is interested in applying to the white woman who actually made those remarks. That says an awful lot about the society we live in, I think.

Excellent point.

Of course the trope of the ‘angry black woman’ is alive and well, and another way in which this incident is exposing racism in British society.

stuntbubbles · 01/12/2022 21:06

FirewomanSam · 01/12/2022 21:02

Here’s what I find interesting. Ngozi posted her recollection of what Lady SH said. In the resulting commentary on this thread all I’ve really seen said about Lady SH is that her comments were racist, her behaviour was inappropriate, and some comments about her age. I haven’t really seen anyone digging into her character or attacking her in any great detail beyond that.

Ngozi, on the other hand? We’ve had people questioning her clothing, her hairstyle, suggesting she can’t remember the conversation properly, debating why she might have changed her name, speculating about her ‘agenda’, questioning whether she was even invited to the event in the first place, debating whether she is ashamed of her own heritage, criticising her for posting on social media, calling her over sensitive, critiquing the language she has used in interviews, digging into her family and marital status, questioning whether she is good at her job and outright accusing her of lying about the whole thing… and that’s just what I can remember off the top of my head.

The black woman on the receiving end of racist remarks has been subjected to a level of scrutiny and criticism that nobody, NOBODY is interested in applying to the white woman who actually made those remarks. That says an awful lot about the society we live in, I think.

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

Heavyraindropsarefallingonmyhead · 01/12/2022 21:07

FirewomanSam · 01/12/2022 21:02

Here’s what I find interesting. Ngozi posted her recollection of what Lady SH said. In the resulting commentary on this thread all I’ve really seen said about Lady SH is that her comments were racist, her behaviour was inappropriate, and some comments about her age. I haven’t really seen anyone digging into her character or attacking her in any great detail beyond that.

Ngozi, on the other hand? We’ve had people questioning her clothing, her hairstyle, suggesting she can’t remember the conversation properly, debating why she might have changed her name, speculating about her ‘agenda’, questioning whether she was even invited to the event in the first place, debating whether she is ashamed of her own heritage, criticising her for posting on social media, calling her over sensitive, critiquing the language she has used in interviews, digging into her family and marital status, questioning whether she is good at her job and outright accusing her of lying about the whole thing… and that’s just what I can remember off the top of my head.

The black woman on the receiving end of racist remarks has been subjected to a level of scrutiny and criticism that nobody, NOBODY is interested in applying to the white woman who actually made those remarks. That says an awful lot about the society we live in, I think.

I cannot agree with this more

I also fond it interest how.Susan is an old lady who is out of touch and deserves a free pass in her 80s

But Ngozi does not deserve any leeway whatsoever even in her 60s. But on other threads I have often seen racism excused in people in their 60s. But Ngozi is expected to have perfect behaviour to get sympathy. She doesn't get it just based on her age

I'm pretty sure even if their ages were closer it would be the same.

SpicyFoodRocks · 01/12/2022 21:13

thehorsehasnowbolted · 01/12/2022 20:21

outrage in the mind of a reasonable person

What is a 'reasonable person'? It's difficult to judge based on some of the responses on this thread. Most are looking to be offended by everything and anything

Most are looking to be offended by everything and anything

I don’t know you obviously but this phrase does tend to be used rather frequently by bigots.

dollymixtured · 01/12/2022 21:17

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FlorettaB · 01/12/2022 21:22

Wow. You’re easily offended.

Lunar270 · 01/12/2022 21:23

FlorettaB · 01/12/2022 21:22

Wow. You’re easily offended.

I know right. What a snowflake.

Squeezita · 01/12/2022 21:24

Clavinova · 01/12/2022 19:29

Squeezita
I think we’re going round in circles because the mirror article interface is so bad. I’m referring to Ngozi’s dress, not headress.

No need to go round in circles - the Independent's headline is pretty clear;

Charity boss says her authentic African attire led to ‘attack’ from palace aide.

But in the Indie article itself, Ngozi (in her own words) only refers to her necklaces, not her dress.

You are still going round in circles.

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/12/2022 21:24

Most are looking to be offended by everything and anything.

Most people are disgusted by racism because it is offensive. Ngozi Fulani did not look to be offended. She was offended by Lady SH's racist, offensive and unacceptable behaviour.

NosnowontheScottishhills · 01/12/2022 21:27

"But the incident happened in the palace, with a representative of the palace. She’s supposed to approach her aggressor and expect to be treated fairly? That’s like calling the police when the police have attacked you."
@stuntbubbles* Its pretty standard stuff that if you gave a complaint against an organisation you start of complaining to to the organisation whether it be the NHS, a school or your bank. For example independent regulators wont get involved until you have complained to the organisation if you have a grievance against them and awaited their investigation and response.
As I said above if Ngozi had made an official complaint to the palace and received either no response or a mealy mouthed one fine take to social media but give the palace a chance to investigate and to come up with a satisfactory way of addressing her grievance.
SH's comments behaviour was very much in the wrong but Ngozi's was also wrong in the way she reported it.