Page 18 | The Lady Hussey racism thing

Tiiiiiiiiiiired · 2022-12-01T10:58:36+00:00

I am really conflicted about this. If went to live in Japan (I did live there for 3 years several years ago) I would be expected to be asked about where I'm from because I don't look Japanese (and in fact I was asked many times! I didn't mind at all, it was my choice to be in Japan and I knew I didn't look japanese). If I chose to stay in that country and have children, I'd expect my children would be asked the same, and their children and that although they would be Japanese by birth, I would hope they would be happy to talk about their heritage and where they are from and not mind being asked why they don't look Japanese and what the history is. I wouldnt think it racist and wouldn't want such questions to be stopped because we only learn from others, and about others, by talking and feeling safe to ask questions. So why in the UK does everyone have to be sooo careful with what they say? This woman has a non English name, was wearing some non western clothing, as was asked about her heritage. Why is this abuse? We need to stop being so sensitive and allow dialogue.

Squeezita · 01/12/2022 13:18

OverMyJeans · 01/12/2022 13:16

I'm not sure we are agreeing! I think her dress style deliberately encompasses African elements in terms of her print and jewellery choices. My point was that her style is "African from the perpective of an outsider", because she is British and therefore is unlikely to have a specifically Kenyan, Nigerian etc style of dress.

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So basically she was asking to be racially profiled and it’s all her fault. The genteel, white Lady Hussey fell right into Ms Fulani’s evil trap, eh?

OverMyJeans · 01/12/2022 13:18

Squeezita · 01/12/2022 13:07

So you’re saying she deliberately dressed in a way to incite Hussey’s comments. So basically she asked for it?

It’s just a dress. You’ve imbued it with your own connotations.

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What? Literally no idea where you've got that interpretation from. Did you reply to the right comment?

knittingaddict · 01/12/2022 13:19

Eightiesgirl · 01/12/2022 12:49

@knittingaddict On that basis, your post also could be classed as ageist. You mention your elderly parents and their outdated views. That's exactly the same point I was making. When people over a certain age were born, I'm talking people maybe 80+, since you asked. The world was a different place. A much worse place in my opinion, particularly if you were, like me, not your usual straight, white, British member of the public. The world and its views have changed thankfully and eventually people who grew up in that era will no longer exist. Age does matter. I, for one, have been brought up to respect my elders and also to have compassion for other people. This lady is 85, has recently lost a very close friend of many years and, whilst I totally disagree with what she said, I would have just walked away from her or told her to her face that I felt her questioning was racist. I would have let it go based on her age. I would not have humiliated her publicly.

No, I was saying that my parents have always been racist and shouldn't be excused because of their age. Yes some older people lose their filter, but that doesn't mean real racism isn't being exposed.

Squeezita · 01/12/2022 13:20

OverMyJeans · 01/12/2022 13:18

What? Literally no idea where you've got that interpretation from. Did you reply to the right comment?

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Yes, I replied to the right comment and you know exactly what you’re saying.

Quit the faux-naïveté.

Oysterbabe · 01/12/2022 13:24

Fairyliz · 01/12/2022 13:17

Added to this where does this transcript come from, can anyone actually remember a conversation verbatim five minutes later?
If she is so anti the royal family why go to this event, why not refuse or let a colleague go?
It sounds like she went with her own agenda.

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A bog standard conversion - no. An extremely offensive, racist conversation - yes, absolutely.

Lairyfiquid · 01/12/2022 13:26

Rather than asking "if I was in Japan how would I feel" the equivalent is with a person who has Irish born grandparents but British born parents who was born in, let's say, Birmingham and has a strong Brummie accent. They have an "Irish" name- like Siobhan or neave or Niall or Keiren- are they singled out and approach and asked where they are from? If they answer legitimately with Birmingham with a Brummie accent are they pushed to name where their grandparents are from? If the answer to either of these questions is no, then you have to ask what the difference is between that person and Fulani.

ChillyFingers · 01/12/2022 13:26

Can anyone explain though how this incident could be described as racist though. If you look up the definition of racism, it doesn’t seem that it was. The repeated questioning was rude but it wasn’t racist as defined by the meaning?

The offended lady works for an organisation that describes itself as supporting African and Caribbean heritage women in DV situations so I assume she is of that heritage. Why be offended by being asked if she is?

Heavyraindropsarefallingonmyhead · 01/12/2022 13:27

*DuchessOfPort · Today 11:47

Ngozi Fulani has called the RF racist dozens of times. She was hoping for this. She has said the Duchess of Sussex was a victim of domestic violence perpetrated by the RF. She won’t have gone to this event without some hope she could trip someone up and criticise again.*

So you mean she wasn't the perfect victim so she can't be a victim?

If she said that the RF are racist and then she goes to the Palace and someone representing the RF is racist to her, its not her fault she's proved right.

It's rather like saying if someone who points out that 98% of violent offenders are male they deserve to be the victim of an attack because they were criticising men and hoping to trip them up.

All the RF and their representatives had to do to avoid this was not be racist. And I've managed to go my entire life without denying someone's British nationality because they are Black its not hard!

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/12/2022 13:27

Refusing to accept that Ngozi Fulani is British because she is black, is racism @ChillyFingers.

Shelefttheweb · 01/12/2022 13:28

FirewomanSam · 01/12/2022 13:13

That would have been a very different conversation though. If NF had explained her work and talked about the communities she works with and then been asked ‘and do you have links to the Caribbean yourself?’ or something along those lines, I think that would be far more understandable as a question.

But she wasn’t asked about her work at all, the ‘where are you from’ questions came first and were based entirely on how she looks, not related to her work.

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Well yes if LH was actually trying to have a conversation with her rather than gathering a few points of interest to pass on. I have seen this at a royal event - the aide speaks to you (though not me) and asked a few fairly abrupt questions which they jotted down and passed onto another aide with the queen who then introduces you in turn. Knowing something personal about your connection with whatever it is you do means they can come across as interested in you personally and your experience which most people appreciate.

SerendipityJane · 01/12/2022 13:29

If it's any consolation I know a white guy (born of Danish and Welsh parents in Kenya) who was most proud to call himself Kenyan or African. Until he started boarding school in the UK and was told by the headmaster that "whites can't be Africans".

The Danish presence in Kenya is fascinating.

Zooeyzo · 01/12/2022 13:29

I love how white people are talking about when they were asked where they are from. It's really not the same.

minou123 · 01/12/2022 13:30

OverMyJeans · 01/12/2022 13:16

I'm not sure we are agreeing! I think her dress style deliberately encompasses African elements in terms of her print and jewellery choices. My point was that her style is "African from the perpective of an outsider", because she is British and therefore is unlikely to have a specifically Kenyan, Nigerian etc style of dress.

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I don't know why I'm asking but fuck it.

Ive got to know what is "African style", and "African from the perspective of an outsider"?

The print? It's just leopard print. Why does that make it "African"?

AndEverWhoKnew · 01/12/2022 13:30

Lairyfiquid · 01/12/2022 13:26

Rather than asking "if I was in Japan how would I feel" the equivalent is with a person who has Irish born grandparents but British born parents who was born in, let's say, Birmingham and has a strong Brummie accent. They have an "Irish" name- like Siobhan or neave or Niall or Keiren- are they singled out and approach and asked where they are from? If they answer legitimately with Birmingham with a Brummie accent are they pushed to name where their grandparents are from? If the answer to either of these questions is no, then you have to ask what the difference is between that person and Fulani.

That happens all the time. Ask anyone who is part of the Irish diaspora. It's racism then and it's racism with NF.
When the person is Irish, it's usually followed with a question about religion because racism against the Irish is usually aggravated by sectarianism.

Grantanow · 01/12/2022 13:32

The precision of recall of the conversation is very impressive given the length of the exchange.

mishl · 01/12/2022 13:32

If someone told me they were from London, I would leave it at that. I wouldn't ask about their ancestry. For me it's a bizarre topic to raise with a person you've just met. I would be taken aback to be questioned about my ancestral heritage or religious affiliation in this way by a stranger, because frankly it's none of their business and for all I know, they could be hostile towards my community. Where I'm from, "What's your background/religion?" is rarely a benign question, especially if it's the very first thing you're asked. I can understand why Ngozi Fulani was offended to be interrogated about her heritage in this way.

Touching her hair without permission was an offensive and patronising gesture in and of itself.

Hopefully more attention will be drawn to the charity now though, after it's been in the news.

stuntbubbles · 01/12/2022 13:33

ChillyFingers · 01/12/2022 13:26

Can anyone explain though how this incident could be described as racist though. If you look up the definition of racism, it doesn’t seem that it was. The repeated questioning was rude but it wasn’t racist as defined by the meaning?

The offended lady works for an organisation that describes itself as supporting African and Caribbean heritage women in DV situations so I assume she is of that heritage. Why be offended by being asked if she is?

It’s racist because it assumes a Black person can’t be British. It’s racist because if she asked me, a white person, where I was from, I’d say “Surrey” and she’d accept the answer – she wouldn’t accept the answer from a Black woman and not only kept digging, but called it a “challenge”. She treated the guest differently on account of her race, and lesser – you’d better believe she wouldn’t touch a white woman’s hair – and that’s literally the definition of racism.

carefulcalculator · 01/12/2022 13:35

Fairyliz · 01/12/2022 13:17

Added to this where does this transcript come from, can anyone actually remember a conversation verbatim five minutes later?
If she is so anti the royal family why go to this event, why not refuse or let a colleague go?
It sounds like she went with her own agenda.

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Yes, many people can remember conversations, it is why victims of e.g. discrimination/harassment at work are advised to keep contemporaneous notes, as they are often used as evidence.

Sorry if your memory is not very good, that must be a pain for you, but most people do remember to a level accepted by law enforcement etc. - that is why Police speak to witnesses. This is not new.

TakeMe2Insanity · 01/12/2022 13:35

Dotjones · 01/12/2022 11:06

I don't think I would be. I wouldn't consider it a slight, just curiosity on the part of the person asking. I might be Japanese by nationality but still have a certain level of pride in my ancestral roots and not have a problem telling people.

This is a key point perhaps - to me, my ancestral heritage is nothing to be embarrassed or ashamed of - it's not like I had any choice in the matter. I don't mind telling people where I'm from and why I don't live there now.

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Theres a youtube channel where a person talks to non genetically Japanese people born in Japan and one of the thing that frustrates them despite being born in Japan going through the education system they are still asked where they are from having only lived in Japan. This is the same as what happened at the Palace. It is racist. It basically says that despite not being the person who immigrated here, considering here to be home you are still not British enough.

PetraBP · 01/12/2022 13:35

DH has a foreign surname from about 5 generations back.

He gets asked where he’s really from.

He’s white.

Readinginthesun · 01/12/2022 13:36

Coldilox · 01/12/2022 12:38

Fine. If you have read Ngozi’s account of the conversation, which AFAIK has not been disputed, and you don’t think there is a problem, then you are part of the problem.

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I am disputing the use of the word transcript. Unless the conversation was recorded , I fail to see how it be reported as 100% accurate .

carefulcalculator · 01/12/2022 13:36

Grantanow · 01/12/2022 13:32

The precision of recall of the conversation is very impressive given the length of the exchange.

And supported by other witnesses, and accepted by the palace.

OverMyJeans · 01/12/2022 13:36

Squeezita · 01/12/2022 13:20

Yes, I replied to the right comment and you know exactly what you’re saying.

Quit the faux-naïveté.

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Your comment was a complete non sequitur and you know it. The other poster and I were discussing the African influences on Ngozi's outfit, not any response to her outfit.

Shelefttheweb · 01/12/2022 13:36

Grantanow · 01/12/2022 13:32

The precision of recall of the conversation is very impressive given the length of the exchange.

Quite

RambamThankyouMam · 01/12/2022 13:37

My husband is British but not white. He just gets exhausted by the questioning. His father was from a Middle Eastern country, which he doesn't always want to disclose because it's contested territory. His mother's family came from various places escaping the Nazis, which he also doesn't really want to talk about. It's none of anyone's business.