The Lady Hussey racism thing

[Tiiiiiiiiiiired]

I am really conflicted about this.

If went to live in Japan (I did live there for 3 years several years ago) I would be expected to be asked about where I'm from because I don't look Japanese (and in fact I was asked many times! I didn't mind at all, it was my choice to be in Japan and I knew I didn't look japanese). If I chose to stay in that country and have children, I'd expect my children would be asked the same, and their children and that although they would be Japanese by birth, I would hope they would be happy to talk about their heritage and where they are from and not mind being asked why they don't look Japanese and what the history is. I wouldnt think it racist and wouldn't want such questions to be stopped because we only learn from others, and about others, by talking and feeling safe to ask questions.

So why in the UK does everyone have to be sooo careful with what they say? This woman has a non English name, was wearing some non western clothing, as was asked about her heritage. Why is this abuse?

We need to stop being so sensitive and allow dialogue.

Bingo! “Some people are easily offended.”

Interesting you mention never having visited the royal household: I’ve been invited to a palace reception and, though I’m no royalist, it’s nerve-wracking. It’s a huge power imbalance because they know all the rules, spoken and unspoken. Lady Hussey had all the power here because she’s been part of royal circles for decades, knows exactly how it works, who’s who, the hierarchy, the secret codes, her place in it all. Guests just have an invitation clutched in a sweaty hand and you’re ushered into a room and occasionally corralled into a meet-and-greet group with no one explaining exactly what’s going on. The person with the power here, Hussey, used it to harass and intimate the person without.

When it starts to become racist is when the person asking the question is clearly implying - in fact, not even implying but just plain shouting it - that the woman in front of her can't possibly be British because she is black.

There are two sides to every story and we have only heard one side.

We are hearing one womans side of what was asked and she has gone straight to the press TV interviews etc.

There are 3 witnesses to the conversation though. It wasn’t a one-on-one. It’s baffling to me why anyone would try to excuse Hussey’s behaviour, she’s hardly a novice at the role after all.

Ignore my comment about asking a question about the dress. I actually believed the posters who said she was in traditional African dress. But I've seen the photo now and she's just wearing a dress. A nice enough dress but you know not a overtly traditional African dress. That's like saying if I'm wearing a red maxi skirt I'm in a traditional welsh outfit.

Of course it’s racist. Would she have asked the same question of a white Londoner? No. Therefore it is racist.

“Curiosity.”

But Ngozi wasn't brought up in an African country, she is British and was brought up here. Her outfit is a pretty good representation of a British person's interpretation of an African style of dress.

there's nothing racist about wanting to know where the family of a black person originates from. It's just curiosity.

You’re right, there isn’t.

But the thing is, Hussey GOT the answer to this and still pressed on asking because actually she wanted an ALTERNATIVE answer when there wasn’t one!

"People need to stop being offended over nothing."

Yes, they need to stop being offended at racism being called out.

It's a good point, and why it still isn't very appropriate to ask about heritage.

A personal experience at uni - I asked the first other arrival in the uni flat where she was from and she asked what I meant. She was black and I hadn't even thought about the offensive implications. I just meant where in the UK. I asked the other (white) students the same thing. Just a conversation starter. But it did open my eyes a bit, had this girl been asked 'where are you from, really?' Enough times that she thought I meant that?
So since then I would be more careful about asking (at work we get students of all races, i may ask are you from the city where uni is instead, as that is not implying I think they cant possibly be from there). I wouldn't ask about a person's ancestry as I agree it's being overly focused on their skin colour.

Other women who were there have corroborated NF's account and described the exchange as Offensive, racist and unwelcoming.
The Palace investigated and called Lady SH's comments unacceptable and deeply regrettable adding Racism has no place in our society.
Lady SH herself has apologised for the conversation where she repeatedly refused to accept that Ngozi Fulani is British.

How much more do you need? How many more witnesses would it take for you to understand that Lady SH was racist to Ngozi Fulani?

I totally agree with you. That's my point. It wasn't 'ethnic regalia'. It's some cool prints and jewellery. She's not trying to look 'African' (I'm sure she could do a way better job if she wanted to), that's just her style.

There have been black people in Britain since the time of the Romans. Are we really saying some black people may have to justify their heritage right back to Roman times to satisfy someone's 'curiosity'

I'm English, Welsh, Greek, French, Israeli, Indian, and possibly Spanish and that only the bits I know about. I have never been asked to explain my heritage because I look white British enough.

I have been asked to justify my claims of being Welsh because I don't sound 'Welsh' enough even though that ancestors dates back hundreds of years. Weirdly only by English people though who think they can police my heritage

But I am pretty (absolutely) certain that's nowhere near as frustrating and being a black person having to justify their Britishness because they don't 'look' British enough for the questioner.

That’s a great example of white privilege. I’m white and I can hear ‘where are you from?’ and not immediately wonder whether my answer of ‘Manchester’ will be deemed acceptable or whether I’m about to be subjected to a grilling about my family and my heritage by a person I’ve only just met.

So you’re saying she deliberately dressed in a way to incite Hussey’s comments. So basically she asked for it?

It’s just a dress. You’ve imbued it with your own connotations.

Thanks for the clarification, I did wonder

So race is relevant to her charity? If she has strong links to a particular community in the area through her heritage that would show a personal connection with the issue that a white Londoner wouldn’t have.
I would therefore be interested in the insights this might give in her work within that community. It therefore does not seem an unreasonable question to ask. Quite different from just asking someone working for Woman’s Aid where they are from.

"Well, yy because most of the posters on here are saying SH was wrong too.
But certain posters are determined to create a straw man that says otherwise."
I accept it was wrong but I don't like the fact that the conversation was posted on social media and that now the press are hounding her and her godson according to the media has apparently "condemned" her. If NF was so offended she should have formally contacted the officials at the palace and detailed the conversation, maybe asking for a private meeting with SH to explain why it was so offensive. If she'd had no response or an inappropriate response then yes take to social media but act like a responsible adult first. This is what most people do in their work setting (and the typical advise given on here when people experience racism/bullying etc) and ultimately this event so a work setting.

I cannot believe people are still discussing the dress!

If someone was actually curious about her dress they could ask ‘that’s an amazing dress, where is it from? but that wasn’t the question because the dress has nothing to do with any of it!

Ms Fulani’s transcript has been corroborated by other attendees and the palace haven’t denied it happened. Hussey also apologised and resigned.

So it happened as Ngozi said.

Everybody screams the race card at the smallest thing these days. This is the problem. People need to stop being offended over nothing.

Like you need to stop being offended by people 'screaming the race-card' you mean?

Like people who spend a lot of time going in about 'woke snowflakes' complaining about everything whilst totally ignoring the fact they they are the ones complaining about the 'complainers'

That would have been a very different conversation though. If NF had explained her work and talked about the communities she works with and then been asked ‘and do you have links to the Caribbean yourself?’ or something along those lines, I think that would be far more understandable as a question.

But she wasn’t asked about her work at all, the ‘where are you from’ questions came first and were based entirely on how she looks, not related to her work.

Assuming the transcript of the exchange which has been shared is reasonably accurate, I find iit ironic how someone of that class can be so lacking in class. My parents are mid 80s so I can imagine them clumsily asking the "where are you from" or similarly worded question but even as their faculties fail they've enough awareness to read the response, apologise and change the subject. The repeated questioning, almost an interrogation, is crass and just bloody ill-mannered. I don't like cancelling people but she's clearly totally unsuitable for this kind of role.

I'm not sure we are agreeing! I think her dress style deliberately encompasses African elements in terms of her print and jewellery choices. My point was that her style is "African from the perpective of an outsider", because she is British and therefore is unlikely to have a specifically Kenyan, Nigerian etc style of dress.

Added to this where does this transcript come from, can anyone actually remember a conversation verbatim five minutes later?
If she is so anti the royal family why go to this event, why not refuse or let a colleague go?
It sounds like she went with her own agenda.